London Buses Discussion

MotCO

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Would that need everyone to change bus? I can see people getting fed up of that happening regularly.

I've always thought the ideal would be for a battery exchange in lieu of recharging. If there was an easy way to pull out a tray of dead batteries and replace with a tray of fully charged batteries, that would be the answer.

The alternative would be for the batteries to be towed behind the bus. A trailer of dead batteries could be unhitched, and a new trailer with freshly charged batteries could be hitched behind a bus, and away you go.
 
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Man of Kent

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I've always thought the ideal would be for a battery exchange in lieu of recharging. If there was an easy way to pull out a tray of dead batteries and replace with a tray of fully charged batteries, that would be the answer.

Nothing new under the sun. This was the method used by London Electrobus in 1907.
 

MotCO

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It's not far to Orpington Station, where vehicles could be swapped, but it seems surprising, to say the least, that TfL were seemingly unaware of the daily range of electric vehicles when they issued and accepted the tender. The 358 doesn't even seem the most obvious of candidates for a battery bus, as half the route is on fairly open roads.

But TfL doesn't want any new diesel single deckers - I think the last ones have now been delivered, so all new vehicles must be electric or hydrogen.

Which leads me to an earlier point - if the new 507/521 tender requires new buses, they must be electric. What then happens to the existing buses? Put them on existing long single decker routes, currently run by Go Ahead. Step forward route 358!

Incidentally, I saw MEC62 (a native Metrobus bus) on route 358 the other day, but with garage code MG. What was all that about?
 
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There are many issues with running electric buses. One of the issues is the load on the electrical supply. For the Park and Ride buses at Guildford, the buses could not all be charged overnight. In the end they had to install essentially a huge power pack in the garage to charge up during the day, and use the stored power to recharge overnight.

One solution used in Cologne is to have a charging station at one or both ends of the route. If the bus is correctly parked, a type of pantograph can be raised and a top-up charge made. this is obviously on a single decker. Double decks could be more of an issue.
 

MotCO

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In the end they had to install essentially a huge power pack in the garage to charge up during the day, and use the stored power to recharge overnight.
Presumably using higher priced electricity - overnight rates tend to be cheaper.
 

GodAtum

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As some of you may know, Vauxhall Bridge is closed so buses towards Victoria are diverted along Albert Embankment across Lambeth Bridge. But the diverted buses (2, 36, 180) are not stopping to pick up passengers at the bus stops along Albert Embankment. Should they be before I write a complaint to TFL?
 

Robertj21a

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As some of you may know, Vauxhall Bridge is closed so buses towards Victoria are diverted along Albert Embankment across Lambeth Bridge. But the diverted buses (2, 36, 180) are not stopping to pick up passengers at the bus stops along Albert Embankment. Should they be before I write a complaint to TFL?

Why the need to write a complaint when you don't even know if it's right or wrong ?

Just ring them up.
 

Bletchleyite

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General TfL policy is that for unplanned diversions buses do not serve stops on the diversions, but if they are planned some extra stops may (or may not) be planned in.
 

GodAtum

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General TfL policy is that for unplanned diversions buses do not serve stops on the diversions, but if they are planned some extra stops may (or may not) be planned in.

This is a planned diversion lasting for many months.
 

Busaholic

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General TfL policy is that for unplanned diversions buses do not serve stops on the diversions, but if they are planned some extra stops may (or may not) be planned in.
Which doesn't mean that drivers stop there in practice, especially in these days of i-bus.
 

Deerfold

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When I was at Tfl (which was fairly recently) policy was to serve all bus stops on planned diversions. Though not all buses did (including at the stop outside my office).

Looking at https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/bus-changes

Routes 2, 36, 185, N2 and N136 will use Albert Embankment, Lambeth Bridge and Millbank instead serving all stops on the revised route. Bus stop X on Vauxhall Bridge will not be served, please use bus stop A at Pimlico Station.

Which doesn't mean that drivers stop there in practice, especially in these days of i-bus.

Long-term planned diversions should be on iBus, including stop announcements.
 

Busaholic

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When I was at Tfl (which was fairly recently) policy was to serve all bus stops on planned diversions. Though not all buses did (including at the stop outside my office).

Looking at https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/bus-changes





Long-term planned diversions should be on iBus, including stop announcements.
Agreed, and it makes it much easier to enforce when they are, but can't be done overnight.
 

Deerfold

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Agreed, and it makes it much easier to enforce when they are, but can't be done overnight.

Annoyingly, it *can* be done on the day, but there's not enough staff for that to be a priority. When I was there long-term was defined as 6 weeks or more, but there were a number of diversions planned for a month and then extended so didn't get the diversion put onto iBus.
 

Busaholic

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Annoyingly, it *can* be done on the day, but there's not enough staff for that to be a priority. When I was there long-term was defined as 6 weeks or more, but there were a number of diversions planned for a month and then extended so didn't get the diversion put onto iBus.
Ah, I had a primary school teacher whose mantra was 'there's no such word as can't' and I should have said it's very unlikely to be done overnight. :)
 

chopperman21

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Boris Buses/New Routemaster (what ever you wish to call them) are now operating on the Route 313 between Chingford Station and Potters Bar Station. LT181 is one of the examples moved over from the Route 38.
 

higthomas

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Boris Buses/New Routemaster (what ever you wish to call them) are now operating on the Route 313 between Chingford Station and Potters Bar Station. LT181 is one of the examples moved over from the Route 38.
Yes, it really is a funny sight seeing these in the fields near potters bar. I am surprised there wasn't a more obvious route for these. See https://busandtrainuser.com/2020/10/09/lt-buses-reach-potters-bar/ for some photos
When TfL intrdocued the politically inspired New Bus for London – I hesitate at using its official ‘New Routemaster’ name for want of not denegrating the great iconic London bus designed in the late 1950s – nor its nickname after the vanity seeking Mayor who set the hare running by introducing it in the first place – anyway, if you’re still with me, when TfL introduced the you-know-what-bus in 2012, who’d have thought they’d end up on route 313 – a relatively quiet route running from Chingford via Enfield to TfL’s northern served outpost of Potters Bar over the border in Hertfordshire.

Answer: no one.

But, this week sees the start of the transformation of this Arriva London operated route running every 20 minutes daytime (30 minutes evenings and Sundays) from single deck Enviro200 buses to the infamous LT class. Within a matter of days, all of the route’s commitment of seven vehicles (plus an extra or two in the peaks) will be LT type buses which until last weekend plied their way along one of central London’s most frequent routes between Victoria and Clapton Pond: route 38.
 

James H

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Shakeup in Croydon and Sutton

Proposed changes to bus routes S1, S3, S4, 80, 164, 166, 312, 405, 407, 413, 434, 455 and 470, and the introduction of new routes S2, 439 and 443

We are proposing changes to a number of bus routes serving Sutton and Croydon. We are also proposing to introduce three new bus routes. Our proposals would help to make the bus network simpler, more efficient, accessible to key locations and developments, and to ensure our resources are invested in the locations where passenger demand is highest.
 

Busaholic

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Shakeup in Croydon and Sutton
Not living in the area, but with connections to it dating way back, they look like a good set of proposals on the whole, in an area where (certainly up to Coronavirus) bus travel was on the up and I hope will increase again. The area around South Croydon has suffered greatly in recent years from bus reduction, and, to a certain extent, the modest increases planned, with new areas covered, are a step in redressing the balance. Now, if only the so-called Tramlink proposals for Sutton/St Helier/Mitcham could gain traction!
 

upasalmon

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I am a little out of touch, but when Red Arrow started in 1966 the buses used were AEC Merlins, from 1980 by Leyland National 2s, later by the artics.

The original seating capacity of the Merlins was B24D+48 standees. Is this type of seating/standee arrangement used in 2020? Surely with COVID19 this arrangement is a no-no? I'm sure that few seats plus standees is a danger anyway and should be banned.

MOTCO Crosville used a Ribble liveried Leyland National on the Run corn Busway in the mid-1970s. This had a battery trailer but I think it spent more time in the depot than on the road. It didn't last long, only until about 1980. They didn't have a spare trailer........
 
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duncombec

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I am a little out of touch, but when Red Arrow started in 1966 the buses used were AEC Merlins, from 1980 by Leyland National 2s, later by the artics.

The original seating capacity of the Merlins was B24D+48 standees. Is this type of seating/standee arrangement used in 2020? Surely with COVID19 this arrangement is a no-no? I'm sure that few seats plus standees is a danger anyway and should be banned.

Yes, both the previous generation of Citaros and the current generation of BYD/A-Dennis vehicles have standee areas. I'm not sure how it is working with Covid requirements, but in any case I imagine there is slightly less "crush loading" than previously, given how many offices are still working from home (many that I am aware of are not intending on being back until January at the earliest).

Why is it dangerous? There have been, as far as I am aware, no incidents involving its use in London, and whilst not to same extent, buses in Paris and Rome get equally busy. Unless you have evidence that is is dangerous, of course....
 

Mikey C

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Yes, both the previous generation of Citaros and the current generation of BYD/A-Dennis vehicles have standee areas. I'm not sure how it is working with Covid requirements, but in any case I imagine there is slightly less "crush loading" than previously, given how many offices are still working from home (many that I am aware of are not intending on being back until January at the earliest).

Why is it dangerous? There have been, as far as I am aware, no incidents involving its use in London, and whilst not to same extent, buses in Paris and Rome get equally busy. Unless you have evidence that is is dangerous, of course....
From photos, people are still standing on the tube during busy periods. Buses also have the advantage of fresh air
 

upasalmon

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The ONLY issue on which I agreed with Boris Johnson was on articulated buses.
I dislike crush load single deckers because of the lack of seats (Obviously!), then if the bus has to brake hard that makes a crowd unstable. Now in a London rush hour the Red Arrow would be travelling slowly, but the danger lies in a pile-up of living bodies. For safety EVERYBODY should be seated. I'm surprised Sadiq Khan has not acted on crush load buses in the COVID19 pandemic. The same issues would apply in continental Europe as overcrowded buses offer restricted space and make social distancing impossible.

As for fresh air thats only when the windows and doors are open!
 

Deerfold

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The ONLY issue on which I agreed with Boris Johnson was on articulated buses.
I dislike crush load single deckers because of the lack of seats (Obviously!), then if the bus has to brake hard that makes a crowd unstable. Now in a London rush hour the Red Arrow would be travelling slowly, but the danger lies in a pile-up of living bodies. For safety EVERYBODY should be seated. I'm surprised Sadiq Khan has not acted on crush load buses in the COVID19 pandemic. The same issues would apply in continental Europe as overcrowded buses offer restricted space and make social distancing impossible.

As for fresh air thats only when the windows and doors are open!

Is being seated on a bus always safer? (Serious question).

What do you expect Sadiq to do about crush loaded buses? The only solution I can see is leaving people behind.
 

Mikey C

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Standing is currently banned on London buses


Standing on buses
You must remain seated on buses at all times. Standing is not currently allowed anywhere on a bus.

This is so that people can use all the space on both decks while maintaining social distance.
 

upasalmon

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deerfold said:
Is being seated on a bus always safer? (Serious question).

What do you expect Sadiq to do about crush loaded buses? The only solution I can see is leaving people behind.

Transfer single deckers to lighter loaded routes and double deck the Red Arrows.

Even in Paris and especially Rome there must be some concern about crush loaded buses during a pandemic.
 
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duncombec

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Deerfold - Transfer single deckers to lighter loaded routes and double deck the Red Arrows.

I presume you are not aware the 521 passes through Strand Underpass northbound, which is signed at 11'9", and thus totally unsuitable for double deckers?

Even in Paris and especially Rome there must be some concern about crush loaded buses during a pandemic.

Are you talking about during the pandemic, or all the time? Your use of
Surely with COVID19 this arrangement is a no-no? I'm sure that few seats plus standees is a danger anyway and should be banned
makes it seem like you are objecting to their use both in Covid times and normal times.
 

Busaholic

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Is being seated on a bus always safer? (Serious question).

What do you expect Sadiq to do about crush loaded buses? The only solution I can see is leaving people behind.
It wasn't safe for my father-in-law who was thrown forward from his seat on a PrestonBus single decker when it braked violently, and suffered a broken hip at the age of 86: the irony was that he'd worked in the bus industry all his life. His life was never the same again, despite receiving a new hip, and hastened his demise.
 

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