London Buses Discussion

[higthomas]

High time that TfL adopted LED screens for route numbers and destinations. Blinds are just so outdated, inflexible and costly to change.

I definitely second this. Whilst yes, blinds are clearer, the frequency with which they are wrong is just far too high, and is definitely outweighing the marginal impact of that clarity.

 

[AB93]

I am split truth be told, on the matter. Blinds are cheaper to install, maintain and replace but at the same time the clarity of smart blinds is second to none. No LED can ever replicate that quality. But of course, LED as you say is much more flexible and can show multiple messages and be updated instantly.

In the case of this one off isolated incident it is fair to say the LT shouldn't have been on the 133 anyways so the blinds work fine for the job they do.

The tube trains and trams have LEDs. Passengers seem to manage...!

 

[Statto]

Almost everywhere[certainly every major operator] in the UK & beyond have LED blinds installed in buses, the white LEDs are much better than the orange ones, i'm amazed TFL still insists on roller blinds in TFL area, but bizarrely the sightseeing tour buses in London have LEDS

LEDs can be updated much more easily if there's a change to the destination of the bus, rather than putting a new piece of canvas[or whatever else they use] then painting the destination on, in a roller blind

 

[Deerfold]

Almost everywhere[certainly every major operator] in the UK & beyond have LED blinds installed in buses, the white LEDs are much better than the orange ones, i'm amazed TFL still insists on roller blinds in TFL area, but bizarrely the sightseeing tour buses in London have LEDS

LEDs can be updated much more easily if there's a change to the destination of the bus, rather than putting a new piece of canvas[or whatever else they use] then painting the destination on, in a roller blind

The blinds on sightseeing buses and other non-TfL services are not subject to the rules TfL sets for its own tendered services.

 

[urpert]

The electric Caetano things on the C10 have very high res LED destination screens which approximate New Johnston. Other recent deliveries have stuck with blinds though.

 

[Mikey C]

The electric Caetano things on the C10 have very high res LED destination screens which approximate New Johnston. Other recent deliveries have stuck with blinds though.

The Solo SRs on the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes also have LED blinds, I don't think conventional blinds are an option on that model

 

[londonteacher]

LED displays (which are used around the country with no issues) would also allow for any bus to be used on any route subject to other requirements. Currently, buses are being moved around London to suit the needs of the current covid service with buses from other garages being used. The LT on the 133 was probably due to an unavailable bus so they used what they had available rather than cancelling a service which would have not helped with social distancing. LED blinds would have allowed this bus to display the correct signage.

LED displays also could display when the bus is full, say which buses are school services are only, have information about diversions on it to aid passengers before boarding.

I love the blinds it is one of the things that makes London London, but realistically with TFL trialling LED blinds on certain routes, it won't be long until London is blind free except on heritage routes.

 

[whoosh]

Shame nothing has really come of e-ink displays for bus destination screens. They can show different things with the same flexibility as LED, but with the clarity of blinds.

E-paper, driving evolution in London public transportation

London can now boast the most advanced and green of display technologies at several bus stops - electronic paper, powered by Visionect

www.visionect.com

 

[londonteacher]

An example of a Route 25 bus with LED destination display being used. Quality is never as good in photographs as in person. Taken from the London Bus Blog

 

[cnjb8]

I think the reason why some buses have been delivered with LEDs is because TfL now demands them.

The Solo SRs on the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes also have LED blinds, I don't think conventional blinds are an option on that model

They will do. Blinds usually are fitted by an external company

 

[Robertj21a]

I think the reason why some buses have been delivered with LEDs is because TfL now demands them.


They will do. Blinds usually are fitted by an external company

Solo SRs physically cannot have blinds fitted.

 

[jon0844]

Shame nothing has really come of e-ink displays for bus destination screens. They can show different things with the same flexibility as LED, but with the clarity of blinds.

E-paper, driving evolution in London public transportation

London can now boast the most advanced and green of display technologies at several bus stops - electronic paper, powered by Visionect

www.visionect.com

e-ink can be used in so many applications on and off the bus, but it seems development has been very slow in lots of industries where it would work brilliantly. Colour e-ink is increasingly becoming viable, and could potentially be used to replace posters at stations/bus stops that give timetable information, engineering work details and so on. It would then be possible to have timetables with real-time information/amendments, information regarding local disruption and so much more.

 

[MotCO]

Solo SRs physically cannot have blinds fitted.

I've always wondered why Go-Ahead London were so keen on the Streetlite, rather than the Solo. Maybe it was because Solo SRs could not be fitted with roller blinds, a TfL requirement, whereas Streetlites can.

 

[cnjb8]

Solo SRs physically cannot have blinds fitted.

I've always wondered why Go-Ahead London were so keen on the Streetlite, rather than the Solo. Maybe it was because Solo SRs could not be fitted with roller blinds, a TfL requirement, whereas Streetlites can.

There is no reason why the Solo SR wouldn't be able to have blinds fitted

 

[Deerfold]

I think the reason why some buses have been delivered with LEDs is because TfL now demands them.

I did wonder if that might be coming. The extreme dislike of LEDs was largely down to a couple of senior staff who have moved on.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is no reason why the Solo SR wouldn't be able to have blinds fitted

How do you know that ? - it's not what the operator, or TfL, has stated.
Please clarify your source.

 

[AB93]

Solo SRs physically cannot have blinds fitted.

Quality Line OS20255 - YJ13 HJN

One of the quietest routes In London is the 404 which operates between Caterham on the Hill & Coulsdon, it runs hourly with the last journey leaving Caterham at 1845, with no Sunday or bank holiday service. 18th April 2018.

www.flickr.com

The Quality Line RATP ones have.

How do you know that ? - it's not what the operator, or TfL, has stated.
Please clarify your source.

 

[Robertj21a]

Very interesting. Metroline said they couldn't be fitted with blinds and that they'd had to ask TfL to accept LEDs.

 

[AB93]

Very interesting. Metroline said they couldn't be fitted with blinds and that they'd had to ask TfL to accept LEDs.

Perhaps due to the narrow width (are they any different)? Either way, whatever it is would appear to be specific to those buses, rather than the type as a whole.

 

[Mikey C]

The Metroline Solo LEDs don't look great from certain angles, certainly not on this day

OS - Optare Solo SR (Update 03.06.2020) - jimmyshengukbuses

Events 2013 (Bus Rallies and Running Days) 18 Aug: Hemel hempstead Running Day 7 Sept: London Transport "Reshaping" 45th Anniversary, display and running day, Chingford Royal Forest Hotel 22 Sept: SHOWBUS International, Long Marston airfield, near Stratford upon Avon 6 Oct: Amersham Running Day...

jimmyshengukbuses.smugmug.com

 

[700007]

From what I heard with the Metroline Solos, it is to do with the weight of the power blind units causing the bus to exceed TfLs weight limits for 7.8m buses? It was considerably lighter to use LEDs instead.

 

[londonteacher]

The Metroline Solo LEDs don't look great from certain angles, certainly not on this day

OS - Optare Solo SR (Update 03.06.2020) - jimmyshengukbuses

Events 2013 (Bus Rallies and Running Days) 18 Aug: Hemel hempstead Running Day 7 Sept: London Transport "Reshaping" 45th Anniversary, display and running day, Chingford Royal Forest Hotel 22 Sept: SHOWBUS International, Long Marston airfield, near Stratford upon Avon 6 Oct: Amersham Running Day...

jimmyshengukbuses.smugmug.com

LED displays don't always show well on cameras anyway.

 

[cnjb8]

Bus Lists on the Web is now showing some new Wright StreetDecks for Metroline numbered WHD2708-2727. I'm guessing these are the hydrogen buses, will be able confirm once the chassis number is added.

 

[jon0844]

The Metroline Solo LEDs don't look great from certain angles, certainly not on this day

OS - Optare Solo SR (Update 03.06.2020) - jimmyshengukbuses

Events 2013 (Bus Rallies and Running Days) 18 Aug: Hemel hempstead Running Day 7 Sept: London Transport "Reshaping" 45th Anniversary, display and running day, Chingford Royal Forest Hotel 22 Sept: SHOWBUS International, Long Marston airfield, near Stratford upon Avon 6 Oct: Amersham Running Day...

jimmyshengukbuses.smugmug.com

Uno buses have white LED 'blinds' on some new buses and they seem perfectly bright, except for at the rear where they sit behind tinted glass. As you can imagine, they're very hard to read in that situation - but that's not the fault of the display.

LEDs come in all different shapes and sizes and if you see how bright an Infotec display with white LEDs is at a train station, it's clear that brightness isn't an issue if you use the right components.

You can also ensure they're readable at an angle, and even put in an ambient light sensor to adjust the brightness. Likewise, the new displays can simulate greyscales through varying brightness levels.

I do think e-ink with a suitable backlight (again, adjustable to conditions) would work better, given I am sure TfL isn't likely to want scrolling text or anything like that (e-ink is of course terrible for anything scrolling/animating).

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Bus Lists on the Web is now showing some new Wright StreetDecks for Metroline numbered WHD2708-2727. I'm guessing these are the hydrogen buses, will be able confirm once the chassis number is added.

They are indeed the hydrogen buses. Will operate route 7 between East Acton and Oxford Circus.

 

[700007]

They are indeed the hydrogen buses. Will operate route 7 between East Acton and Oxford Circus.

Should allow the current VWH Volvo hybrids to move to route 328 from Cricklewood when Metroline take over next Summer.

Tower Transit has got all 10 Optares in service on route C3 and are awaiting further delivery of Optares for route 23

Ex-Tower Transit VN36153 now with CT Plus at Ash Grove garage

Ex-Abellio Enviro 200 MMCs previously at Walworth for route C10 that have been used on coronavirus school extras across Go-Ahead London are now being refurbished ahead of Bexleyheath's takeover of routes 469 and B12

 

[chopperman21]

Stagecoach London have now started to introduced there first electric double deckers onto the Route 174. Such as 14104

 

[galwhv69]

Quality Line OS20255 - YJ13 HJN

One of the quietest routes In London is the 404 which operates between Caterham on the Hill & Coulsdon, it runs hourly with the last journey leaving Caterham at 1845, with no Sunday or bank holiday service. 18th April 2018.

www.flickr.com

The Quality Line RATP ones have.

The Metroline Solo's have LED's as they are thinner, so the Powerblind Unit cannot fit in

 

[cnjb8]

The Metroline Solo's have LED's as they are thinner, so the Powerblind Unit cannot fit in

Oh, then my apologies
To me it seemed weird that they couldn't fit blinds to them but that makes sense

 

[JetBlast]

What is the situation with LED blinds in London please? Are they only allowed under special circumstances? I thought I had read somewhere that TFL gave the Hi-res LED displays the green light.