London Buses Discussion

[chopperman21]

Its not everyday a new bus route starts in London, this week saw the start of the Route 733, a temporary route running between Moorgate Finsbury Square and Oval Station, to replace the Bank branch of the Northern Line which is closed for 17 weeks for major works at Bank Station. Operate by Tower Transit using Wrightbus Gemini 3 buses (which have just returned from loan spells at Metroline and Stagecoach) such as VH38136.

 

[Mojo]

On the BBC as well, Spirit of London buses haven't had much luck really

Mile End stabbing: Man critical after attack on east London night bus

Two other people had knife injuries after the attack on the bus outside Mile End Tube station.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just seen “Spirit of London” on the 205. Never seen that before.

 

[chopperman21]

Now the majority allocation on the Route 259 are LT's such as LT564. These have been released following reductions on 19, 73 and 149.

 

[AM9]

Now the majority allocation on the Route 259 are LT's such as LT564. These have been released following reductions on 19, 73 and 149.

Sorry for this off-topic post but I've just looked at the picture you linked to and it shows vehicle number LT564, but I was surprised to see that the registration number is LTZ1564 which as far as I know, doesn't conform to the letter-number-letter format currently in use. I know that London Transport has reserved vast blocks of registration numbers and can remember when the Routemasters were introduced, they seemed to be all VLT, WLT etc., but they did conform to the then format i.e. three letters followed by three numbers and after 1962 with an added letter at the end. Is this a special arrangement now?

 

[duncombec]

Sorry for this off-topic post but I've just looked at the picture you linked to and it shows vehicle number LT564, but I was surprised to see that the registration number is LTZ1564 which as far as I know, doesn't conform to the letter-number-letter format currently in use. I know that London Transport has reserved vast blocks of registration numbers and can remember when the Routemasters were introduced, they seemed to be all VLT, WLT etc., but they did conform to the then format i.e. three letters followed by three numbers and after 1962 with an added letter at the end. Is this a special arrangement now?

It's a Northern Ireland (NI) registration. Although this was a special request by TfL, I think it used to be the case that Wright insisted on registering vehicles in NI before shipping, so a lot of their early minibuses and darts received NI registrations - I recall some in the NDZ series, for example.

 

[AM9]

It's a Northern Ireland (NI) registration. Although this was a special request by TfL, I think it used to be the case that Wright insisted on registering vehicles in NI before shipping, so a lot of their early minibuses and darts received NI registrations - I recall some in the NDZ series, for example.

Thanks, It did cross my mind that the bus shown was finished in Belfast and that might look like a valid reg for there but I suppose it was fortuitous for LT that they could get that range of numbers.

 

[Mikey C]

It's a Northern Ireland (NI) registration. Although this was a special request by TfL, I think it used to be the case that Wright insisted on registering vehicles in NI before shipping, so a lot of their early minibuses and darts received NI registrations - I recall some in the NDZ series, for example.

It was a neat touch to get a proper series of LT registration plates for the Borismasters

 

[MotCO]

It's a Northern Ireland (NI) registration. Although this was a special request by TfL, I think it used to be the case that Wright insisted on registering vehicles in NI before shipping, so a lot of their early minibuses and darts received NI registrations - I recall some in the NDZ series, for example.

The first couple of LTs had proper 'mainland' registrations, but were re-registered once the block of numbers had been reserved.

 

[Brooke]

Just seen “Spirit of London” on the 205. Never seen that before.

Yes, I think that’s pretty new. It’s mostly been on the 25 and 425 I believe. (My office window overlooks Mile End Road…).

ÉDIT 24 Jan: After a couple of days when I also saw it on the 205, now back on the usual 25 and/or 425 runs over the weekend and today.

 

[Mojo]

I see the new buses on the 63 have a full destination display on the rear of the bus (displaying both the route number and the destination). I wonder if this is going to be some kind of new London standard? You see it in a few places outside London such as Oxford and Newcastle, but it’s not particularly common.

 

[AM9]

I see the new buses on the 63 have a full destination display on the rear of the bus (displaying both the route number and the destination). I wonder if this is going to be some kind of new London standard? You see it in a few places outside London such as Oxford and Newcastle, but it’s not particularly common.

Way back I remember that RTs had a condensed rear blind with the route nummber at the top of an abbreviated list of places passed and a single line destination roll at the bottom. RMs had a similar arrangement with the number beide the places list. Since then, just the number seems to be all that there is. That was always better than most buses outside London that I has relied on that had nothing. At least one could see which bus had just been missed. The trolleys had the number and destination though.

 

[Mojo]

Way back I remember that RTs had a condensed rear blind with the route nummber at the top of an abbreviated list of places passed and a single line destination roll at the bottom. RMs had a similar arrangement with the number beide the places list. Since then, just the number seems to be all that there is. That was always better than most buses outside London that I has relied on that had nothing. At least one could see which bus had just been missed. The trolleys had the number and destination though.

I found this pic online from one of the heritage Routemaster routes (https://images.app.goo.gl/mKVUaQ4CZgQDikBy5). Seems to show route number and summary of key stops above the platform and on the rear, and the final destination additionally to the rear.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I found this pic online from one of the heritage Routemaster routes (https://images.app.goo.gl/mKVUaQ4CZgQDikBy5). Seems to show route number and summary of key stops above the platform and on the rear, and the final destination additionally to the rear.

Yes - the RMs helpfully had information (including the route number and other stuff) on the side and rear as well as the front. Another aspect of their functionality that was lost when they were scrapped.

 

[Man of Kent]

Yes - the RMs helpfully had information (including the route number and other stuff) on the side and rear as well as the front. Another aspect of their functionality that was lost when they were scrapped.

Although as many platform staff will tell you, the presence of via points after they have been passed is a constant source of irritant to many passengers less familiar with the route in question.

 

[AM9]

I found this pic online from one of the heritage Routemaster routes (https://images.app.goo.gl/mKVUaQ4CZgQDikBy5). Seems to show route number and summary of key stops above the platform and on the rear, and the final destination additionally to the rear.

Here's a picture of the RT rear blinds that I remember https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-...=1024&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968:645,smart (picture of rear of RT on route 29)

 

[Busaholic]

I found this pic online from one of the heritage Routemaster routes (https://images.app.goo.gl/mKVUaQ4CZgQDikBy5). Seems to show route number and summary of key stops above the platform and on the rear, and the final destination additionally to the rear.

There was a time in the 1980s and 1990s when a large number blind replaced the one with number on the left and the via points at the back only, but the old standard came back in around the time Transport for London was created, together with a return to white lettering on blinds rather than yellow.

 

[Stan Drews]

I see the new buses on the 63 have a full destination display on the rear of the bus (displaying both the route number and the destination). I wonder if this is going to be some kind of new London standard? You see it in a few places outside London such as Oxford and Newcastle, but it’s not particularly common.

A full rear destination display (route no & destination) has been fairly standard on new UK buses for several years. I think it is part of the current PSVAR requirements.
Here’s an example on a 2014 McGill’s bus. I think virtually all their full size buses since then have a similar arrangement.

 

[Roger1973]

There was a time in the 1980s and 1990s when a large number blind replaced the one with number on the left and the via points at the back only, but the old standard came back in around the time Transport for London was created, together with a return to white lettering on blinds rather than yellow.

wasn't it earlier than that when RT/ RM buses got just route number and destination at the back? Can find this photo dated 1970.

And think the reversal of the trend (showing via points on rear blind as well) was earlier than TFL - think it was around the time that yellow blind tourist routes happened in the mid 1980s.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

I see the new buses on the 63 have a full destination display on the rear of the bus (displaying both the route number and the destination). I wonder if this is going to be some kind of new London standard? You see it in a few places outside London such as Oxford and Newcastle, but it’s not particularly common.

I noticed this too on the new E400 EVs on the 63 when I was walking along Blackfriars Bridge on Sunday and grabbed a picture. The 'blind' is actually an LED display but does look very clear, high resolution and replicates the New Johnston font well. Perhaps this heralds the end of printed destination blinds?

 

[Cesarcollie]

A full rear destination display (route no & destination) has been fairly standard on new UK buses for several years. I think it is part of the current PSVAR requirements.

No. PSVAR just requires a number at the back. Though of course operators can provide more if they wish.

 

[bakerstreet]

Hello, it's Marc and I'd like to take a look around in this topic area.

When there were no automatic bus stop announcements in London and other cities in the 1980s and 1990s, did the bus drivers announce the stops?

How high would you estimate the rate of bus drivers who announced the stops without being asked?

Many greetings Marc

In London bus conductors were often pretty good at this sort of thing

 

[Mikey C]

Ever since the Routemasters, London buses (certainly the double deckers) have only had space for the number, so it would be quite a change.

 

[MotCO]

I noticed this too on the new E400 EVs on the 63 when I was walking along Blackfriars Bridge on Sunday and grabbed a picture. The 'blind' is actually an LED display but does look very clear, high resolution and replicates the New Johnston font well. Perhaps this heralds the end of printed destination blinds?

I also note that the bus depicted had a 'green' number plate. Not seen a bus with this before.

 

[AlbertBeale]

There was a time in the 1980s and 1990s when a large number blind replaced the one with number on the left and the via points at the back only, but the old standard came back in around the time Transport for London was created, together with a return to white lettering on blinds rather than yellow.

There was a time some years back (can't now remember when exactly) when yellow destination blinds were used specifically on London's night bus routes. It was always cheery to see the yellow blinds appearing amongst the dwindling white ones if out last thing at night.

 

[MotCO]

There was a time some years back (can't now remember when exactly) when yellow destination blinds were used specifically on London's night bus routes. It was always cheery to see the yellow blinds appearing amongst the dwindling white ones if out last thing at night.

As were Green Line blinds and some special routeings, such as anticlockwise to a normal clockwise routeing.

 

[busesrusuk]

As were Green Line blinds and some special routeings, such as anticlockwise to a normal clockwise routeing.

Such as this:

LT L46

Bexleyheath Garage

www.flickr.com

And for a brief period even green blinds were used:

LT BL94

Ruislip Station

www.flickr.com

 

[Statto]

I still don't get why TFL still refuse to use LED blinds on buses, almost every operator outside London now uses them, even Lothian uses them, Lothian uses the white on black version which TFL could use, which is better than the orange on black?

 

[busesrusuk]

I still don't get why TFL still refuse to use LED blinds on buses, almost every operator outside London now uses them, even Lothian uses them, Lothian uses the white on black version which TFL could use, which is better than the orange on black?

TfL do allow electronic blinds on buses. There are a growing number of new buses fitted with electronic blinds. All the new electric buses for London United are fitted (circa 100+ vehicles) whilst previous batches of buses for Stagecoach and abellio also have electronic blinds. The route 63 buses with the rear destination is part of a package of improvements to the vehicle spec including laminate flooring and full colour interior "next stop" displays. Nothing new outside of the TfL area of course.

 

[Statto]

TfL do allow electronic blinds on buses. There are a growing number of new buses fitted with electronic blinds. All the new electric buses for London United are fitted (circa 100+ vehicles) whilst previous batches of buses for Stagecoach and abellio also have electronic blinds. The route 63 buses with the rear destination is part of a package of improvements to the vehicle spec including laminate flooring and full colour interior "next stop" displays. Nothing new outside of the TfL area of course.

I see, i haven't seen TFL buses with electronic blinds on yet, although last visit was in October for the NFL game, i'll keep an eye out next time i pay a visit to London.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I still don't get why TFL still refuse to use LED blinds on buses, almost every operator outside London now uses them, even Lothian uses them, Lothian uses the white on black version which TFL could use, which is better than the orange on black?

The original reasoning was that traditional blinds were superior to early electronic ones, and the electronic ones couldn't replicate New Johnston. I believe there was an exemption for the Optare Solos used on routes H2 and H3 around Hampstead Garden Suburb, as the vehicles can't accommodate "traditional" blinds, ahead of the quiet change to the network-wide vehicle specification.