London Euston status

[Philip]

I can remember a few years ago there were proposals for direct services between West Yorkshire and London Euston and possibly some other obscure points of origin relative to the southern West Coast Mainline. Is London Euston considered the most important station in London in a way that it gives connected regions in the UK some kind of 'boost'; is it the most convenient for the central business or 'sight-seeing' districts in London; are the onward connections much better than at Kings Cross for example?

If none of these factors apply, then why on earth was the idea of a West Yorkshire-London Euston considered in the first place, when it is such a long way round route and when there are already much more direct services available along the ECML?

 

[JonathanH]

If none of these factors apply, then why on earth was the idea of a West Yorkshire-London Euston considered in the first place, when it is such a long way round route and when there are already much more direct services available for the ECML?

I suspect it is much more to do with there already being Open Access on the ECML feeding off Doncaster and York flows and the desire to pick up part of the flows on the WCML similarly. Not about West Yorkshire as much as getting passengers at Stockport and somewhere in the Trent Valley.

Nothing to do with desirability of Euston.

 

[The Planner]

ORCATS, there is clearly some money to abstract on the WCML so that is where they go for. Grand Union to Scotland on the WCML isnt dead and buried as far as I know.

 

[greyman42]

It was a Euston to Huddersfield service via Stockport and Stalybridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can remember a few years ago there were proposals for direct services between West Yorkshire and London Euston and possibly some other obscure points of origin relative to the southern West Coast Mainline. Is London Euston considered the most important station in London in a way that it gives connected regions in the UK some kind of 'boost'; is it the most convenient for the central business or 'sight-seeing' districts in London; are the onward connections much better than at Kings Cross for example?

If none of these factors apply, then why on earth was the idea of a West Yorkshire-London Euston considered in the first place, when it is such a long way round route and when there are already much more direct services available along the ECML?

I don’t think it’s any better or worse for connections than Kings Cross (or St Pancras). Just slightly different. Bearing in mind the size of London, and the 2 stations are only a few hundred yards apart, I don’t think onward connections have much at all to do with supposed status.

 

[yorksrob]

I find Euston underground station less laberynthine to navigate than Kings Cross St P.

Also, I slightly prefer the Euston Tap over The Betjamin or The Parcel Yard for loitering in.

 

[37424]

To be honest I think Kings Cross is far better for a lot of onward connectivity than Euston which frankly a bit of dead loss in many respects. I could see me accepting a slower journey to KX for the greater convienence of the onward connection in some cases post HS2, and of course I expect a lot will be bailing out at OOC rather than Euston.

 

[JonathanH]

To be honest I think Kings Cross is far better for a lot of onward connectivity than Euston which frankly a bit of dead loss in many respects. I could see me accepting a slower journey to KX for the greater convienence of the onward connection in some cases post HS2, and of course I expect a lot will be bailing out at OOC rather than Euston.

Euston is great if you want to get to Victoria, probably less so for anywhere else. I have often done Euston arrival to Victoria departure in less than 15 minutes.

 

[30907]

It was a Euston to Huddersfield service via Stockport and Stalybridge.

Which as it happens is a route that goes back to LNWR days and isn't significantly longer than from Kings Cross via Leeds.

 

[37424]

Which as it happens is a route that goes back to LNWR days and isn't significantly longer than from Kings Cross via Leeds.

I think it was intended to go on to Bradford but I think it was basically lets find anyway we can to get an open access operator on to the West Coast, but of course its like all these OA proposals lets find a lucrative route where we can find a random town which currently doesn't have a good London service, and make out we are bringing a new service and great benefits to that route and see what Orcats raids we can do without making it look too abstractive, I think one even suggested Ilkley at one point.

Of course what we saw with the last East Coast Franchise, was the offer of better services to Lincoln. Middlesbrough, Harrogate, Bradford etc to try and ward off this stuff.

 

[Philip]

Which as it happens is a route that goes back to LNWR days and isn't significantly longer than from Kings Cross via Leeds.

Huddersfield to Stockport alone is about 45 minutes!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It was a Euston to Huddersfield service via Stockport and Stalybridge.

Wasn't there a few proposals all announced by the same company at once? I remember one for Euston - WCML - Barrow - Carlisle around the same time.

 

[Glenn1969]

Ian Yeowart as usual

 

[30907]

Huddersfield to Stockport alone is about 45 minutes!

I was going by distance, but yes, it'd be about 10min slower as well.

 

[Gloster]

I would consider Kings Cross to be better connected than Euston. Euston has the Victoria and both branches of the Northern, but, while KX also has the Victoria, it only has the City branch of the Northern. However, KX also has the Piccadilly, and the Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City close by, while at Euston you have to make your way to Euston Square for the last three. (Admittedly, it is a fair few years since I used to do that.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would consider Kings Cross to be better connected than Euston. Euston has the Victoria and both branches of the Northern, but, while KX also has the Victoria, it only has the City branch of the Northern. However, KX also has the Piccadilly, and the Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City close by, while at Euston you have to make your way to Euston Square for the last three. (Admittedly, it is a fair few years since I used to do that.)

Though the HS2 work is fixing that.

 

[Gloster]

Though the HS2 work is fixing that.

So, for how many years will it be necessary to traipse through a building site?

 

[37424]

I would consider Kings Cross to be better connected than Euston. Euston has the Victoria and both branches of the Northern, but, while KX also has the Victoria, it only has the City branch of the Northern. However, KX also has the Piccadilly, and the Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City close by, while at Euston you have to make your way to Euston Square for the last three. (Admittedly, it is a fair few years since I used to do that.)

Plus a very short walk to St P and you have Thameslink, and of course HS1 Domestic and Eurostar

 

[swt_passenger]

Ian Yeowart as usual

Scattergun train planning...

 

[Bald Rick]

So, for how many years will it be necessary to traipse through a building site?

Fewer than St Pancras and Kings Cross was!

 

[camflyer]

I would consider Kings Cross to be better connected than Euston. Euston has the Victoria and both branches of the Northern, but, while KX also has the Victoria, it only has the City branch of the Northern. However, KX also has the Piccadilly, and the Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City close by, while at Euston you have to make your way to Euston Square for the last three. (Admittedly, it is a fair few years since I used to do that.)

Depending on how many pubs you stop in along the way, I've done KX to Euston in as little as 2 hours.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Wasn't there a few proposals all announced by the same company at once? I remember one for Euston - WCML - Barrow - Carlisle around the same time.

Yes there was I think it was called GNWR and at one point even Millom was a stop on the Carlisle proposal!

 

[HS2isgood]

Yes there was I think it was called GNWR and at one point even Millom was a stop on the Carlisle proposal!

Lol what a blatant ORCATS raid. I think there was a Stirling proposal too lmao. The Huddersfield routing looks just so nonsensical.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Lol what a blatant ORCATS raid. I think there was a Stirling proposal too lmao. The Huddersfield routing looks just so nonsensical.

I have found a map of the 2013 version which also shows the cumbrian coast. I was quite looking forward to that one!!

 

[The Planner]

Lol what a blatant ORCATS raid. I think there was a Stirling proposal too lmao. The Huddersfield routing looks just so nonsensical.

The Scotland plan isn't dead.

 

[greyman42]

Lol what a blatant ORCATS raid. I think there was a Stirling proposal too lmao. The Huddersfield routing looks just so nonsensical.

I think the idea of the Huddersfield route was to try and get some of the London-Manchester market by stopping at Stockport. I think that by carrying on to Huddersfield they thought it would increase their chances of getting it approved.

 

[Bald Rick]

Typical OA methodology is:

1) find existing routes with lots of revenue that need relatively little resource (usually long distance routes to London), where even a small ORCATS share is substantial
2) of these, find those with a few theoretical paths
3) add in an off ‘main line’ origin / destination that has little or no direct service to London
4) look for an intermediate stop (or two) that has a lower level of service than most of the rest of the route
5) get the local stakeholders at the stations in 3&4 excited about potential new direct services to London
6) promise cheaper fares

To be fair, the First East Coast operation doesn’t have (3), but does have a very different operating model.

 

[Mikey C]

Euston is less well connected, but is in a slightly better location than Kings Cross

A nicer neighbourhood and shorter (and nicer) walk into the West End

 

[telstarbox]

Euston is great if you want to get to Victoria, probably less so for anywhere else. I have often done Euston arrival to Victoria departure in less than 15 minutes.

And Charing Cross / Waterloo which applies to most people connecting to south of London.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Euston is less well connected, but is in a slightly better location than Kings Cross

A nicer neighbourhood and shorter (and nicer) walk into the West End

How is Euston is any shape or form nicer than Kings Cross. Kings Cross is now one of the nicest places in London and dare I'd say the country and is a far bigger destination than Euston.

Euston is one of the only not so pleasant areas left in central London.