London Euston to Glasgow Central

[chrisg]

G'day all,

I have a question about a journey I intend to make next week on the above route. I am getting the first train of the day (it's about 5.50am) and was wondering if the train (I assume a Pendolino?) will be busy or not. I am thinking it'll be fairly quiet, but I would rather get to the station earlier to get a decent seat instead of getting there at the last minute.

Also, is there anything interesting/special/notable I should look out for on my journey? I am returning the same day, and also travelling from Glasgow Central to Hairmyne and back inbetween.

Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

You will have no problems at all at that time, the train will be fairly empty I'd have thought! What ticket price have you been quoted?

 

[CCF23]

Shouldn't be busy at that time.Things to see: Lake District, Crewe Heritage Center,WCML Freight on slow lines maybe some 86's, passing London Underground Bakerloo Line trains after Harrow and Wealdstone, the tilting on a Pendolino is fun around Lake District, Berkhamstead (south of Milton Keynes) i know there's more. Will be a Pendolino. Chris

 

[Lampshade]

APT on the right hand side on the way into Crewe

Many power stations in the Midlands as well.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Carnforth Station Buffet and Railtown (is it still there?)

 

[chrisg]

You will have no problems at all at that time, the train will be fairly empty I'd have thought! What ticket price have you been quoted?

It was about £280 for an anytime day return (I need the flexibility). However I suggested that the company (its on expenses) paid for the renewal of my 16-25 railcard which then dropped the ticket price to £180. Plus the £26 for the railcard means we ended up saving about £60 (and I get a free railcard, though I don't use it much).

Looking forward to seeing the Lake District certainly! Was hoping to get free wi-fi but apparently that's only in First Class. I thought Virgin had gone the same way as NXEC and offered it to the great unwashed in standard class, but apparently not. I am hoping that my 3G dongle will work on the route though, so I can check out the area I'm travelling through.

Will be different from my normal commute to work, certainly!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Carnforth Station Buffet and Railtown (is it still there?)

Would especially like to go through Carnforth (Brief Encounter, indeed!).

 

[yorkie]

Railcard discounted Off Peak Returns are valid on any Virgin Trains service. No need for an Anytime.

What train are you getting back, as for a Day return a combination may be even cheaper.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Whenever i've caught the 05:47 EUS to GLC from Preston (08:15), i've always peered through the standard windows as the front 5 carriages pass me, to find that Standard Class, as already suggested, isn't very busy.

However, one thing i've found in First Class, is that loadings on that train vary greatly. One day i've had the carriage almost to myself, the next, i've had 80% occupancy. (Talking to the staff, they find this strangely happens alot)

It was about £280 for an anytime day return (I need the flexibility). However I suggested that the company (its on expenses) paid for the renewal of my 16-25 railcard which then dropped the ticket price to £180. Plus the £26 for the railcard means we ended up saving about £60 (and I get a free railcard, though I don't use it much).

Even better for railcard holders- You may also use any peak time service on Virgin Trains, if you hold a valid railcard with an off peak return. ("Off peak return" being the cheapest return ticket available to buy on the day, previously known as a saver return.)

According to a quick internet search, the "Off Peak Return" is £71.80, definately is valid on the 05:47 Euston to Glasgow (arrives 10:36), but only if you hold a valid railcard.

This saves you a further £107.05 against the price of an anytime return with a railcard.

Edit: Yorkie beat me to it :razz:

 

[chrisg]

Whenever i've caught the 05:47 EUS to GLC from Preston (08:15), i've always peered through the standard windows as the front 5 carriages pass me, to find that Standard Class, as already suggested, isn't very busy.

However, one thing i've found in First Class, is that loadings on that train vary greatly. One day i've had the carriage almost to myself, the next, i've had 80% occupancy. (Talking to the staff, they find this strangely happens alot)



Even better for railcard holders- You may also use any peak time service on Virgin Trains, if you hold a valid railcard with an off peak return. ("Off peak return" being the cheapest return ticket available to buy on the day, previously known as a saver return.)

According to a quick internet search, the "Off Peak Return" is £71.80, definately is valid on the 05:47 Euston to Glasgow (arrives 10:36), but only if you hold a valid railcard.

This saves you a further £107.05 against the price of an anytime return with a railcard.

Edit: Yorkie beat me to it :razz:

1....

2....

3....

BUGGER! Oh well, at least the (overpriced) journey won't be too busy!

 

[yorkie]

Why don't you get a refund and buy the cheaper ticket? At least then you've only thrown away £10 instead of £107 going down the drain!

I don't understand why Anytimes are bought in advance anyway. If not holding a railcard you can buy on board, and if holding a railcard you can buy immediately before travel.

BTW, where is Hairmyne? The only result on Google for this is this thread! Also, where are you travelling from? As not many people live within walking distance of Euston. I wonder if you can save even more money with a through ticket.

 

[chrisg]

I'll look into the refund option - thanks!

Small cock up on the final destination, it's apparently Hairmyres. It's in East Kilbride. Am not going on this trip for pleasure, certainly!

And I'm going to be leaving from our offices at Canary Wharf, so I'm getting a cab at about 4.50am as I fancy getting some breakfast at Euston (or failing that, on the train). Once I get back to Euston, it's then a journey via Southern from Victoria to get me home (1hr 30m). Shall be a long day. :P

 

[janb]

Carnforth Station Buffet and Railtown (is it still there?)

The Refreshment Room most certainly is.

I presume you mean Steamtown, no longer a museum of course, but there as a working yard for WCRC. Will definitely see some rusting carriages as you go past, and maybe some nicer ones as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't understand why Anytimes are bought in advance anyway. If not holding a railcard you can buy on board, and if holding a railcard you can buy immediately before travel.

Whilst I agree with the general sentiment, if work are paying then may have to be bought in advance.

 

[gordonthemoron]

yes, I meant steamtown. Went past it last November, looked interesting

 

[ChrisTheRef]

If work are paying, could you toy with first class? That way you'll get free breakfast on board (see VT site for more details)

 

[chrisg]

If work are paying, could you toy with first class? That way you'll get free breakfast on board (see VT site for more details)

First class isn't really an option - in any case I'm not that fussy. I was contemplating treating myself to some fast food for breakfast - I am not a burger monkey, so visiting the Golden Arches is a rare thing for me!

 

[paul1609]

To be honest I'm surprised in this day and age of "duty of care" for employers they will allow you to make this as a day trip by train - why didnt you fly from Gatwick?

 

[bengolding]

I flew on the popular 08:45 BA flight from London City to Glasgow recently at short notice as I was in the Docklands, and a flexible one way fare cost £225 on an Economy-only flight.

Unless booked well in advance, flexible fares on similar departures from LGW or LHR tend to be of similar price. That makes your flexible Standard Anytime Return at under £300 seem quite good value, although if you could restrict to specific trains you could have got First Advances both ways for less than that but with no flexiblity.

 

[yorkie]

It's only an extra 30p to Hairmyres.

Where on Southern are you going back to? Do you have a ticket for that already?

An excess one way to, somewhere like Littlehampton or Seaford for example, would be about £7 including the tube.

 

[paul1609]

I flew on the popular 08:45 BA flight from London City to Glasgow recently at short notice as I was in the Docklands, and a flexible one way fare cost £225 on an Economy-only flight.

Unless booked well in advance, flexible fares on similar departures from LGW or LHR tend to be of similar price. That makes your flexible Standard Anytime Return at under £300 seem quite good value, although if you could restrict to specific trains you could have got First Advances both ways for less than that but with no flexiblity.

Personally when travelling on an outward flight for business I dont need a flexible ticket. I go on the first flight and if a meeting gets delayed or whatever i just wait. Coming back I need the flexibility. If I need to go to Glasgow tomorrow I'd go on the first Easyjet flight in the morning and book to come back on the most expensive flight which is around 16.00. I can do this tomorrow for £190.00 which is as walk up and go as you get on the airlines.
If I need to change my flight back home Easyjet will be delighted to change my expensive ticket for a cheaper flight and charge me £30 for the priviledge. Thats £190 to £230 compared to £300. Not to mention the much better travelling time and travelling conditions.

Canny businesses don't travel flexible anymore which is why ba have been so badly hit and why rails share of the South of England to Scotland market is negligable. If you dont believe me look at departures from Edinburgh Airport and see where the majority of their passengers are flying to in the afternoon and evening.

 

[yorkie]

I can't argue with the times, but on price, it's £86 all the way from the south coast to Hairmyres purchasable on the day, compared with the cost of getting to Gatwick (£20?) plus the £190-230, plus the cost from the Airport to Hairmyres.

So the train is about 1/3 of the price for the OP.

Admittedly for non-railcard holders buying on the day, the train is a very bad deal, although you could get around it a little bit by splitting.

 

[chrisg]

It's only an extra 30p to Hairmyres.

Where on Southern are you going back to? Do you have a ticket for that already?

An excess one way to, somewhere like Littlehampton or Seaford for example, would be about £7 including the tube.

Am going back to Worthing, but I have a season ticket for Worthing to London Terminals which includes a travelcard - I normally commute from Worthing to London Bridge every day.

I did consider flying, but I have no idea what time I will be coming back and the train is more flexible than Easyjet. And I can use my journey to catch up on some sleep!

 

[paul1609]

Actually I think flying is actually a whole lot more flexible than the train.
If you get the first train from Euston you get to Hairmyes at 11.40 just in time for anybody youre visiting to be going out for lunch.
The last train back with a connection to Worthing is 15.51.
Lets face it if you spend 14 hours travelling youre are going to need some sleep.

 

[yorkie]

It is worth considering the Sleeper, especially if you book far in advance and get a Bargain Berth! If you didn't have a railcard I'd say that would be the cheapest way of doing it, as an Off Peak + Berth supplement is cheaper than an SOR.

 

[paul1609]

My recent experiences on the lowland sleeper suggest that its having a bit of a quality crisis at the moment and is best avoided. There seems to be a constant battle going on between staff as to whether the lounge car is now First Class only or sometimes first class.
On a trip earlier in the year they didnt have enough bedding for standard class passengers to have a sheet and even in first class the cabins could be described as fairly tatty.

 

[glynn80]

On a trip earlier in the year they didnt have enough bedding for standard class passengers to have a sheet and even in first class the cabins could be described as fairly tatty.

There is no real distinction between a "first class cabin" and a "standard class cabin", all cabins are identical except in the case of a first class cabin the top bunk is folded away into the adjacent wall.

First Scotrail can and do alter the layout of the service depending on capacity needs and often a first class cabin one day may be standard class the next.

 

[paul1609]

I get the impression that Scotrail have periods when they try to promote the sleeper followed by periods when it gets run down in the hope that the government will give them permission to close the service; Its definantly in one of the latter at the moment. The staff on the lowland sleeper arent a patch on the West highland line or the FGW sleeper come to that.

 

[chrisg]

Actually I think flying is actually a whole lot more flexible than the train.
If you get the first train from Euston you get to Hairmyes at 11.40 just in time for anybody youre visiting to be going out for lunch.
The last train back with a connection to Worthing is 15.51.
Lets face it if you spend 14 hours travelling youre are going to need some sleep.

I can't see a 15:51 service on NRE - the latest I could want to catch would be the 16:40 - this gets me into Euston at 21:24. The last train to Worthing is the 00:05 (although this does go into Brighton and back out again so takes a little longer!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whenever i've caught the 05:47 EUS to GLC from Preston (08:15), i've always peered through the standard windows as the front 5 carriages pass me, to find that Standard Class, as already suggested, isn't very busy.

However, one thing i've found in First Class, is that loadings on that train vary greatly. One day i've had the carriage almost to myself, the next, i've had 80% occupancy. (Talking to the staff, they find this strangely happens alot)



Even better for railcard holders- You may also use any peak time service on Virgin Trains, if you hold a valid railcard with an off peak return. ("Off peak return" being the cheapest return ticket available to buy on the day, previously known as a saver return.)

According to a quick internet search, the "Off Peak Return" is £71.80, definately is valid on the 05:47 Euston to Glasgow (arrives 10:36), but only if you hold a valid railcard.

This saves you a further £107.05 against the price of an anytime return with a railcard.

Edit: Yorkie beat me to it :razz:

Is the off peak railcard deal valid on weekdays?

Virgin trains say otherwise when I rang them!

 

[John @ home]

Is the off peak railcard deal valid on weekdays?

Virgin trains say otherwise when I rang them!

Yes.

[some lines snipped]
Standard Class Return
From : 1072 LONDON TERMINALS
To : 0433 GLASGOW CEN/QST
Discount : 16-25 RAILCARD
SVR - OFF-PEAK RETURN VWC
Route : 00000 - ANY PERMITTED
Price : £ 71.80
Restriction : 5F
FOR TRAVEL TO OR VIA: London
These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.
OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:
DEPART: LONDON EUSTON At or after 0905.
RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:
ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON At or after 1005.
NOTES:
2) Holders of 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards , New Deal Photocards and Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards travelling with Off-Peak tickets may use ANY Virgin train service, as long as the journey being made is priced by Virgin Trains. If the journey is not priced by Virgin Trains then the stated Off-Peak restrictions apply.

The code VWC to the right of the ticket type is the indicator that this particular journey is priced by Virgin Trains. VWC stands for Virgin West Coast.

John

 

[chrisg]

Many thanks John!

Sadly it seems Virgin trains are now using an Indian call centre. I got through to them and was told that no such easement exists, and if using my off peak ticket I would be liable to a penalty fare and could be "arrested when I get to your destination"!!! A letter of complaint is on the way, I assure you.

I did ask the woman (Geeta, I think) if she knew anything about the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (as an idle question), after a long pause there was the casual "no", as if I had asked her a personal and irritating question.

 

[John @ home]

I ... was told that no such easement exists

Yes. The UK railway pricing system is far too complicated. It is quite possible that the person you spoke to searched their computer for "Easements". That is a section of the National Routeing Guide and this information would not be found there. It is also perverse that some "Easements" don't ease anything at all - they impose additional restrictions!

Even though I knew the information, it took me quite some time to find the right words to quote to you. I could find no trace on the National Rail or Virgin Trains web sites.

I did ask ... if she knew anything about the National Rail Conditions of Carriage

In this case, the National Rail Conditions of Carriage don't help.

John