London Euston to Shotton Off Peak Return Validity

[parkender102]

I'm travelling from London Euston to Shotton on the Return Portion of a Shotton to Farnborough Off Peak Return next Tuesday 11 June. Normally Monday to Friday this ticket can be used on any Virgin Train after 09:30 in the morning EXCEPT the 16:10 Service to Bangor. I believe this restriction was lifted by Virgin when travelling on Fridays only to even out the loading of services leaving London.

However as it's a Tuesday the restriction is still in place and the 16:10 would be the ideal service for me. I can take the 16:07 to Liverpool (which my ticket is valid on) and alight at Crewe and wait 5 minutes and then join the 16:10 from London Euston to Chester which leaves Crewe at 17:45.

Would my ticket be valid on this portion of the journey - even though it's strictly not valid from London Euston? I don't think I ever recall having my ticket checked on a Virgin Service from Crewe to Chester.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's an interesting question. The electronic restriction says no (it's a "train banned throughout" one) but the wording of the textual restriction suggests otherwise.

 

[Puffing Devil]

The text restriction says:

Not valid on trains timed to depart:
London Euston after 04:29 until 09:05 but not valid on the 16:10 departure (16:10 is valid for travel on Fridays)
​

Which means that you cannot board the 1610 further down the line; if it were departures from Euston, that would be a different matter.

You could gamble on not getting checked Crewe-Chester and hope that if you are, your ticket isn't spotted. The worst case would be the difference between the Peak and Off-Peak

Or you could alight at Crewe and invest in a £12.90 insurance ticket from Crewe - Chester, then pick-up again on your old ticket.

 

[Silverdale]

The text of the restriction reads; "Not valid on trains timed to depart:... London Euston after 04:29 until 09:05 but not valid on the 16:10 departure (16:10 is valid for travel on Fridays)"

I guess it should say; 'also not valid on the 16:10', rather than 'but...'

That aside, I have always understood "Not valid on trains timed to depart:.." to refer to those trains in their entirety, not just for departure from the station where the departure time is stipulated. "train banned throughout", in other words.

 

[krus_aragon]

I agree that the restriction disallows the 16:10 at any point along its journey. I did a similar journey (travelling beyond Shotton) a few years back, and delays on the WCML meant that I missed my connection onto the ATW service at Chester. I got on the next available service, which happened to be the Virgin 16:10 (though I didn't realise at the time). Standing on the platform at Crewe, there was no obvious way to tell if this (delayed) train had left Euston at 16:10 or not. There was no ticket check on board either, so there was no opportunity for questioning my ticket's validity.

 

[parkender102]

Thanks for the replies - sounds like an 'Insurance' ticket for the Crewe to Chester portion £12.90 is the way to go.

When calculating the difference between Off Peak and Peak Ticket how is this done? i.e. which portion - or is it the whole journey? The Off Peak Return Shotton to Farnborough Main is priced at £104.90.

 

[Silverdale]

To get an excess from an Off-Peak to an Anytime return, it's the difference between the price of the two tickets. You can't just excess the return portion.

The Anytime return is... wait for it... £352.00. So the excess would be £247.10.

 

[parkender102]

Wow! £12.90 seems like a bargain now. Unlikely to have my ticket checked but will buy the Crewe to Chester single just in case.

 

[Silverdale]

I'm not an expert, but my understanding of the rule is that £247.10 would be the excess.

It just seems odd, in that on that flow, SVH single tickets are available (online) at half the price of an Off-Peak return (SVR) So you could be holding two of those singles instead of your return. In that case, my presumption is that you could excess just the single covering the return leg of the journey to an Anytime, at a cost of £123.55. In regard to an excess of one leg to an Anytime, it seems to discriminate in favour of those who can buy SVH singles online, versus those who are forced to buy the SVR, elsewhere.

Anyway, the £12.90 loophole - sorry, insurance - ticket does look like the best option. It will only require an additional change of trains at Crewe.

 

[methethpropbut]

Realistically would the £247.10 excess *ever* be charged? Surely the logical thing is to just charge you for a new Crewe - Chester ticket?

 

[Starmill]

It would be permitted to use the 1610 London Euston to Bangor service from Milton Keynes Central to Chester with the return portion of a Shotton to Farnborough Stations Off Peak Return if you book it at www.transcanbecheaper.info - go to advanced options and enter via London Euston and change at Milton Keynes Central.

The itinerary is as follows:

1400 Farnborough Main to London Waterloo (SW)
London Underground from Waterloo to Euston
1546 London Euston to Milton Keynes Central (LM)
1641 Milton Keynes Central to Chester (VT)
1822 Chester to Shotton (AW)

Obviously this might not suit you because you need to make the 1546, rather than the later 1607. You are also likely to face more overcrowding on the 1546 than the 1607. It is however undeniably permitted.

 

[Starmill]

Realistically would the £247.10 excess *ever* be charged? Surely the logical thing is to just charge you for a new Crewe - Chester ticket?

No. It should never be charged. A new Anytime Single from London to Shotton is £147.50. This would be the most that could be charged.

 

[gray1404]

Perhaps when you get on the Liverpool service, tell the Train Manager you're breaking your journey at Crewe and could they mark that on the back of the ticket. Then when you board the VT service to Chester they are more likely to pass you that one stop knowing you've not left London on that train. I'd also say if they we're to charge you a new fare, it would at least be a Crewe to Chesrer single.

 

[RJ]

Realistically would the £247.10 excess *ever* be charged? Surely the logical thing is to just charge you for a new Crewe - Chester ticket?

No to the first question - most likely a new SOS from London to Shotton would be sold. Anyone looking for loopholes would be advised to carry out research prior to the journey and to buy anywhere except Euston at the the restricted time. I don't think a Crewe to Chester ticket would be offered.

 

[Silverdale]

No. It should never be charged. A new Anytime Single from London to Shotton is £147.50. This would be the most that could be charged.

That of course makes sense, but could you just clarify that if the OP held out/back SVH tickets (same price as the SVR), rather than purchasing a new SOS, he could excess the SVH at the lower cost of £123.55.

 

[Puffing Devil]

At the risk of stating the obvious, the OP can simply get the 16h40 from Euston, change at Crewe and Chester, arrive Shotton 19h07 on their ticket for no additional cost.

 

[krus_aragon]

At the risk of stating the obvious, the OP can simply get the 16h40 from Euston, change at Crewe and Chester, arrive Shotton 19h07 on their ticket for no additional cost.

Or aim for the 15:40, do the same, arriving at 18:22. (This train is the one I'd travelled on in my earlier anecdote.)

 

[kieron]

No to the first question - most likely a new SOS from London to Shotton would be sold. Anyone looking for loopholes would be advised to carry out research prior to the journey and to buy anywhere except Euston at the the restricted time.

You could buy a Crewe-Chester ticket on a phone app while you're waiting. I'd probably do that in this situation, as you don't know if you'll need the ticket when you're in London, and you're not in Crewe for long enough to buy a ticket there. I might buy a different ticket myself, but the idea's the same.

Disruption isn't all that uncommon on the WCML. By the time you reach Crewe, it may not be worth changing onto the 16:10 rather than another Crewe-Chester train, and the 16:10 could even have overtaken your train, and to have left Crewe before the 16:07 gets there.

 

[RJ]

At the risk of stating the obvious, the OP can simply get the 16h40 from Euston, change at Crewe and Chester, arrive Shotton 19h07 on their ticket for no additional cost.

The OP's stated that the times of the 16:10 are ideal, which gets them there at 18:31 so the focus has been on how to arrive at that time for the best price.

 

[RJ]

You could buy a Crewe-Chester ticket on a phone app while you're waiting. I'd probably do that in this situation, as you don't know if you'll need the ticket when you're in London, and you're not in Crewe for long enough to buy a ticket there. I might buy a different ticket myself, but the idea's the same.

That would work