"London International" ticket doesn't say international

[button_boxer]

My wife and I are travelling to Europe for new year, taking a Eurostar to Brussels and then a Thalys to Cologne. So on Tuesday I booked a pair of advance tickets from Derby to "London International" on the Virgin Trains website (the journey is via East Midlands Trains but neither they nor NXEC, who I would normally use, offer the CIV tickets online). I collected the tickets from the machine at Derby this morning and the destination printed on the tickets is London Terminals - no mention of 'international', 'LNE', 'CIV' or anything to indicate that they are CIV tickets as opposed to normal domestic ones.

Is this normal? Am I supposed to just take a printout of my booking confirmation to prove that the tickets are CIV or something? I tried phoning Virgin customer service but the person on the other end of the phone didn't seem to understand the concept of London International tickets or what the difference was between them and normal London ones...

(not that I'm expecting things to go wrong, of course, but might as well take the available precautions given it doesn't cost any extra)

 

[gordonthemoron]

I buy tickets to/from London International either thru Raileasy or Eurostar Domestic sales in Ashford, both issue tickets with origin or destination showing as LONDON INTL(CIV)

See attachment

 

[Wyvern]

I've not had occasion to use Eurostar so I'm ignorant of the procedures, but two questions interest me

Doesn't the ticket include both trains? The impression I get from the advertising is that its a through ticket.

What is CIV?

 

[gordonthemoron]

CIV transalates as International Conditions of Carriage or Convention Internationale pour le transport des Voyageurs in French

If you have two (or more) consecutive CIV tickets, then if you miss a connection the rail operator has to put you on the next train at no extra cost.

e.g. I buy a Munich-London (CIV) ticket and a London-Leeds (CIV) ticket. The journey involves 3 changes, in Cologne, Brussels & London. Should I miss any of the connections I am able to continue my journey on the next available train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I presume the OP bought a through ticket from London to Cologne

 

[button_boxer]

I've not had occasion to use Eurostar so I'm ignorant of the procedures, but two questions interest me

From Derby wouldn't you be using East Midlands Trains?

Yes, however the EMT website doesn't offer tickets to London International. Raileasy sells them, but won't let you book two tickets together where one is full price and the other has a railcard discount - they'll sell two railcard tickets or two full price but not one of each in the same transaction. The only online retailer I've found that ticks all the boxes is Virgin Trains.

What is CIV?

The conditions of carriage that apply to international rail journeys in Europe, the key feature of which (from my point of view) is that if any of your trains are delayed or cancelled and you miss a connection they are obliged to put you on the next available train for no extra charge. If my London train is late and I miss my booked Eurostar then on a CIV ticket they would put me on the next Eurostar instead, whereas on a normal ticket to London they're entitled to tell me where to stick it...

 

[Greenback]

CIV transalates as International Conditions of Carriage

If you have two (or more) consecutive CIV tickets, then if you miss a connection the rail operator has to put you on the next train at no extra cost.

e.g. I buy a Munich-London (CIV) ticket and a London-Leeds (CIV) ticket. The journey involves 3 changes, in Cologne, Brussels & London. Should I miss any of the connections I am able to continue my journey on the next available train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I presume the OP bought a through ticket from London to Cologne

Correct. If the domestic ticket is an AP non CIV ticket and the specific train is missed, the TOC can require the customer to purchase new tickets.

 

[button_boxer]

I presume the OP bought a through ticket from London to Cologne

No, because the advance purchase Eurostar tickets for the dates in question came on sale several weeks before the Thalys ones (which in turn were well before the EMT ones). But both the Eurostar and Thalys tickets are cross-border so they're both CIV automatically.

 

[gordonthemoron]

In future, just ring Eurostar Domestic Ticket Office in Ashford on 01233 617913.

I the meantime, I'd complain to Virgin as you have not been supplied with the tickets you purchased.

 

[button_boxer]

In future, just ring Eurostar Domestic Ticket Office in Ashford on 01233 617913.

I the meantime, I'd complain to Virgin as you have not been supplied with the tickets you purchased.

Oh I intend to, just wanted to check I wasn't about to make a fool of myself by doing so. I've already tried their call centre but even after I explained the whole CIV thing they didn't seem to understand what I was talking about. I think snail mail may be the way to go.

 

[stut]

Interesting. Looking at the CIV document itself (in French - can't find a translation), I see that:

En cas de suppression, de retard ou de manquement d'une correspondance dans une relation internationale, le transporteur rembourse les frais raisonnables d'hébergement du voyageur, de taxi et d'avertissement des personnes attendant le voyageur :

- si le voyageur ne peut poursuivre son voyage le même jour ou,
- si la poursuite du voyage n'est pas raisonnablement exigible en raison des circonstances données.

or, to my rough translation:

In case of cancellation, delay or a missed connection in an international journey, the transport provider will reimburse the passenger reasonable costs for accommodation, taxis and alerting those awaiting the passenger:

- if the passenger cannot continue his journey the same day or,
- if the continuation of the journey is not reasonably feasible due to specific circumstances.

There is a get-out clause for strikes.

I have an upcoming Eurostar trip, and am worried about getting home to Biggleswade, if the FCC work-to-rule causes another Sunday standstill on the GN route. As there were no replacement services to my stop, and as a work-to-rule is distinct from an announced strike, would this cover me?

(I'm expecting some other get-out clause to cover it, but it'd be nice to know if there were something I could count on...)

 

[philjo]

I have always obtained them from my local FCC station.
In my case they are walk-on tickets as of course no seat reservations are needed to get to London with FCC.
In theory you are supposed to show your eurostar tickets when buying the London international tickets, but the booking clerk knows me so have never had to produce them.
I think there is the option to book them online from selected stations as part of the eurostar booking process, but last time I tried it didn't show the same fares for the eurostar section.

 

[LondonLarry]

My wife and I are travelling to Europe for new year, taking a Eurostar to Brussels and then a Thalys to Cologne. So on Tuesday I booked a pair of advance tickets from Derby to "London International" on the Virgin Trains website (the journey is via East Midlands Trains but neither they nor NXEC, who I would normally use, offer the CIV tickets online). I collected the tickets from the machine at Derby this morning and the destination printed on the tickets is London Terminals - no mention of 'international', 'LNE', 'CIV' or anything to indicate that they are CIV tickets as opposed to normal domestic ones.

Is this normal? Am I supposed to just take a printout of my booking confirmation to prove that the tickets are CIV or something? I tried phoning Virgin customer service but the person on the other end of the phone didn't seem to understand the concept of London International tickets or what the difference was between them and normal London ones...

(not that I'm expecting things to go wrong, of course, but might as well take the available precautions given it doesn't cost any extra)

As I understand it, London International tickets are a Eurostar product retailed through National Rail. Eurostar should tell you it's available as it's not a 'public' ticket available in TVMs etc.

I'm not sure how your ticket is issued, but you can buy a through ticket from Derby to Brussels... EMT don't offer Advance tickets between Derby and London International, only Euro Savers

 

[OwlMan]

My wife and I are travelling to Europe for new year, taking a Eurostar to Brussels and then a Thalys to Cologne. So on Tuesday I booked a pair of advance tickets from Derby to "London International" on the Virgin Trains website (the journey is via East Midlands Trains but neither they nor NXEC, who I would normally use, offer the CIV tickets online). I collected the tickets from the machine at Derby this morning and the destination printed on the tickets is London Terminals - no mention of 'international', 'LNE', 'CIV' or anything to indicate that they are CIV tickets as opposed to normal domestic ones.

Virgin Trains do not issue tickets to London International on their website, as they can not issue the CIV tickets without seeing your international ticket; - It is an invalid destination if you attempt to type in the destination box.

Did you book a ticket to "London St Pancras International" which is a valid destination, thinking it was the same as London International.
London St Pancras International is the National Rail Station and not the same as London International.
Tickets to St Pancras International would be issued as "London Terminals"


Peter

 

[button_boxer]

Virgin Trains do not issue tickets to London International on their website, as they can not issue the CIV tickets without seeing your international ticket; - It is an invalid destination if you attempt to type in the destination box.

It looks like they've relaunched their website in the last day or two. When I booked on Tuesday I was able to type in London International as the destination, which gave me tickets to "5470London International" listed as one change - train from Derby to St Pancras and walk from St Pancras to "5470London International".

I've just tried it again on their new website and while it no longer accepts London International in the search box it finds the right thing if you type the three letter code LNE or the number 5470.

 

[gordonthemoron]

it does indeed

 

[Class377]

The reason for that is probably that EMT run to "London St Pancras (Domestic)". You get off there, go down the stairs and you're at the Eurostar Terminal. The "International" tag is only for the platforms which Eurostar services run from, so basically the ticket is correct. No domestic service can run to International, it's not part of the UK Network technically.

 

[MCR247]

The reason for that is probably that EMT run to "London St Pancras (Domestic)". You get off there, go down the stairs and you're at the Eurostar Terminal. The "International" tag is only for the platforms which Eurostar services run from, so basically the ticket is correct. No domestic service can run to International, it's not part of the UK Network technically.

No, you can get tickets that say 'International' on read the thread first before posting utter crap :roll:

 

[Class377]

Nice to know there are nice guys here when I try to help. Besides, if you get EMT to St Pancras a ticket without International will be valid.

 

[EM2]

Nice to know there are nice guys here when I try to help. Besides, if you get EMT to St Pancras a ticket without International will be valid.

It will be valid but, as stated earlier in the thread, the CIV/International part is important in case of delays.

 

[MCR247]

Nice to know there are nice guys here when I try to help. Besides, if you get EMT to St Pancras a ticket without International will be valid.

But thats not the point. If you read the thread fully you'll understand why! :roll::roll:

 

[Surreytraveller]

Nice to know there are nice guys here when I try to help. Besides, if you get EMT to St Pancras a ticket without International will be valid.

Trouble is people may think you know what you're talking about, and believe what you say. 'St Pancras International' is the name of the domestic station as well as the international one - just listen to the announcements of a train that goes there!

A ticket to London Terminals is the same as one to St Pancras International. A ticket to London International (CIV) is different.

 

[Class377]

No, you can get tickets that say 'International' on read the thread first before posting utter crap :roll:

Trouble is people may think you know what you're talking about, and believe what you say. 'St Pancras International' is the name of the domestic station as well as the international one - just listen to the announcements of a train that goes there!

A ticket to London Terminals is the same as one to St Pancras International. A ticket to London International (CIV) is different.

But surely the Domestic services are different? The Nat Rail site states them as two different stations.

 

[yorkie]

But surely the Domestic services are different? The Nat Rail site states them as two different stations.

National Rail and EMT disagree on the name, but it doesn't matter. London International as a destination is used only for tickets used to connect into Eurostar services. A regular ticket from Derby would be issued to London Terminals. The reply you gave indicated that you had not read or understood the original post.

 

[Surreytraveller]

But surely the Domestic services are different? The Nat Rail site states them as two different stations.

The domestic services are different. The name of the station isn't. You can have a ticket with the same conditions on a domestic train as an international one by having it issued to 'London International (CIV)'.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tocs_maps/maps/LondonConnections.pdf

 

[A60K]

National Rail and EMT disagree on the name, but it doesn't matter. London International as a destination is used only for tickets used to connect into Eurostar services. A regular ticket from Derby would be issued to London Terminals. The reply you gave indicated that you had not read or understood the original post.

One small addition: London International CIV tickets are also (I hadn't realised this until a little while ago) available in connection with NXEA Dutchflyer tickets from London Liverpool Street.

 

[Expression357]

And for those that didn't know, if London Intl (CIV) is the destination on the ticket, then this will include the Maltese Cross to get you across to either London St Pancras International (Eurostar) or London Liverpool Street (Boat-Train)

Interestingly, I believe the return portion of a Euro Saver Return is valid for 2 Months.

 

[A60K]

That's correct - the CIV conditions are that a ticket is valid for two months.