London Marylebone : passenger numbers 1980s to now

[Justin Smith]

Does anyone know what the passenger numbers using Marylebone station were at its nadir in the mid 1980s ? According to the ORR they were 15.5 million in 2013/14 and I`d be interested to compare the two.
I think this comparison is particularly interesting the light of the infamous Serpell report of 1983 at which time the approximate number of passengers carried by British Railways was about 750 million, now it`s over 1500 million (1.5 billion).

 

[Phil.]

Does anyone know what the passenger numbers using Marylebone station were at its nadir in the mid 1980s ? According to the ORR they were 15.5 million in 2013/14 and I`d be interested to compare the two.
I think this comparison is particularly interesting the light of the infamous Serpell report of 1983 at which time the approximate number of passengers carried by British Railways was about 750 million, now it`s over 1.5 million.

Are you sure about those figures?
Then - 750,000,000
Now - 1,500,000

I think you may be confusing millions with thousands of millions.

 

[Justin Smith]

Are you sure about those figures?
Then - 750,000,000
Now - 1,500,000

I think you may be confusing millions with thousands of millions.

No you`re right, misplaced decimal point, I shall edit it.... Thanks for pointing that out ! The figures are from this graph on Wikipedia

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I still haven`t managed to find out the passenger numbers using Marylebone in the 1980s, but I was having a look through some old timetables and the total number of services (unless I`ve miscounted ! ) from Marylebone was :
1965 = 65
1975 = 74
1980 = 58
1999 = 130
2015 (pre Oxford services) = 182

One assumes the total number of services inbound and outbound would be about twice the above.

 

[MarkRedon]

Does anyone know what the passenger numbers using Marylebone station were at its nadir in the mid 1980s ? According to the ORR they were 15.5 million in 2013/14 and I`d be interested to compare the two.
I think this comparison is particularly interesting the light of the infamous Serpell report of 1983 at which time the approximate number of passengers carried by British Railways was about 750 million, now it`s over 1500 million (1.5 billion).

At more or less the same time as the Serpell report, there was a serious proposal to close all railway services into Marylebone – residual services would have been rerouted to other termini – and to use the track bed for bus and coach services. Marylebone was under formal threat of closure between 1984 and 1986. Since then, firstly under British Rail and even more so under Chiltern Railways, the station and the services it hosts have gone from strength to strength. The next two major new destinations to be served from Marylebone will be Oxford, next year, and Milton Keynes.

 

[Blindtraveler]

How much redevelopment has the concourse and station facilities undergone since the 80s?

 

[gordonthemoron]

At more or less the same time as the Serpell report, there was a serious proposal to close all railway services into Marylebone – residual services would have been rerouted to other termini – and to use the track bed for bus and coach services. Marylebone was under formal threat of closure between 1984 and 1986. Since then, firstly under British Rail and even more so under Chiltern Railways, the station and the services it hosts have gone from strength to strength. The next two major new destinations to be served from Marylebone will be Oxford, next year, and Milton Keynes.

AFAIR, Marylebone services would have been routed to Baker Street

 

[sprinterguy]

How much redevelopment has the concourse and station facilities undergone since the 80s?

Well there's still Network Southeast insignia over the "plastic" shop units on the concourse, so it can't have changed that much. Beyond that I don't know, admittedly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Milton Keynes.

Though in practice I suspect, except during disruption, that there will be few through passengers given that services to Euston take around 30-45 minutes and this route will take over an hour. East West Rail is about non-London journeys primarily.

 

[NSEFAN]

Well there's still Network Southeast insignia over the "plastic" shop units on the concourse, so it can't have changed that much.

Those NSE logos are a heritage feature now! It'd be unthinkable to remove them!

 

[MarkRedon]

AFAIR, Marylebone services would have been routed to Baker Street

As I understand it, British Rail services via High Wycombe would have been diverted to Paddington. Aylesbury services would have run over an extended and DC-electrified Metropolitan line through Baker Street.

Though in practice I suspect, except during disruption, that there will be few through passengers given that services to Euston take around 30-45 minutes and this route will take over an hour. East West Rail is about non-London journeys primarily.

I am sure you are right. But just as Chiltern Railways believe that there will be a useful flow of passengers between Wycombe and Oxford, there will also be useful flows between intermediate destinations and Milton Keynes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am sure you are right. But just as Chiltern Railways believe that there will be a useful flow of passengers between Wycombe and Oxford, there will also be useful flows between intermediate destinations and Milton Keynes.

True. A difference with Oxford, though, is that broken 319s aside the service on the WCML is acceptable. The service on the GWML from Oxford is far worse.

 

[edwin_m]

True. A difference with Oxford, though, is that broken 319s aside the service on the WCML is acceptable. The service on the GWML from Oxford is far worse.

That's why Chiltern is unlikely to compete with it for London-MK traffic. The service proposed is intended to make efficient use of capacity with overlapping intermediate journeys such as London-Risborough and Wycombe-MK.

If the OP and others interested are not already aware, there was a fascinating feature on Marylebone in London Reconnections. Take the time to skim the comments too - rather off-topic but with some fascinating nuggets from those who were on the inside at the time.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/near-terminal-case-saving-marylebone-rail-road-conversion/

 

[Cherry_Picker]

How much redevelopment has the concourse and station facilities undergone since the 80s?

The big thing is that the station has had two new platforms (5 & 6) built, they were opened about ten years ago following relocation of stabling facilities to Wembley. Most other stuff is just cosmetic or minor practical things, bigger toilets, booking office has moved locations, roof reglazed, some shops moved around and a couple of wooden information buildings constructed. The barrier has been tinkered with on more than one occasion and could probably use a bit more work as it still gets jammed if a couple of trains arrive in station at the same time. Weirdly there is still some prominent NSE branding by the Underground station.

The E-W comments above about Milton Keynes to Marylebone not really being about end to end journeys are probably correct in my opinion, I've always felt it's more about connecting the three big centres of population in Buckinghamshire (MK, Aylesbury & High Wycombe) than giving MK passengers another route into London.

 

[eisenach]

I used Marylebone for the first time in October this year, having come down from Moor Street. I thought it a really nice station ! Moor Street's not bad either.
The journey out was on the Chiltern Mk III stock and was lovely, though the DMU for the return journey was a lot less good.

 

[jopsuk]

Before WW2, the Metropolitan Railway, then London Transport, had ambitions to extend the 4th rail to Aylsebury.

 

[Mikey C]

Before WW2, the Metropolitan Railway, then London Transport, had ambitions to extend the 4th rail to Aylsebury.

Well if it had been an operator other than London Transport, then there would have been no logical reason to electrify to Amersham (a fairly small town) and stop there rather than going through to Aylesbury.

 

[edwin_m]

Before WW2, the Metropolitan Railway, then London Transport, had ambitions to extend the 4th rail to Aylsebury.

Would this only have happened if they'd also been able to extend development of "Metroland" equally far?

 

[jopsuk]

The main thing that got in the way, as with most New Works Programme, was the war

 

[deltic]

Does anyone know what the passenger numbers using Marylebone station were at its nadir in the mid 1980s ? According to the ORR they were 15.5 million in 2013/14 and I`d be interested to compare the two.
I think this comparison is particularly interesting the light of the infamous Serpell report of 1983 at which time the approximate number of passengers carried by British Railways was about 750 million, now it`s over 1500 million (1.5 billion).

According to the Greater London annual abstract of statistics the station saw between 7-8,000 arrivals on a weekday in the mid to late 1980s - so roughly around 4m passengers a year.

 

[telstarbox]

That's why Chiltern is unlikely to compete with it for London-MK traffic. The service proposed is intended to make efficient use of capacity with overlapping intermediate journeys such as London-Risborough and Wycombe-MK.

If the OP and others interested are not already aware, there was a fascinating feature on Marylebone in London Reconnections. Take the time to skim the comments too - rather off-topic but with some fascinating nuggets from those who were on the inside at the time.

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/near-terminal-case-saving-marylebone-rail-road-conversion/

An excellent read, cheers.

 

[absolutelymilk]

According to the Greater London annual abstract of statistics the station saw between 7-8,000 arrivals on a weekday in the mid to late 1980s - so roughly around 4m passengers a year.

Any chance you have a link for those statistics?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Alan A Jackson's book "London's Termini" has an Appendix showing BR passenger figures for October 1968.

Marylebone is shown as 15,000, i.e. around 7,500 each arriving and departing (on 126 train movements).

 

[deltic]

Any chance you have a link for those statistics?

There is a very poor copy on google books - these figures are for the 1970s https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9AMoAQAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=marylebone

and these for the mid to late 1980s

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...tistics&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=marylebone

 

[MichaelAMW]

Alan A Jackson's book "London's Termini" has an Appendix showing BR passenger figures for October 1968.

Marylebone is shown as 15,000, i.e. around 7,500 each arriving and departing (on 126 train movements).

That's only about 120 per train, rather below the capacity of an 8-car 115. However, perhaps the off-peak trains were very quiet, and there were still the Paddington trains every two hours each way.

 

[The Ham]

That's only about 120 per train, rather below the capacity of an 8-car 115. However, perhaps the off-peak trains were very quiet, and there were still the Paddington trains every two hours each way.

Also contra flow peak hour trains would likely be virtually empty.

 

[Justin Smith]

According to the Greater London annual abstract of statistics the station saw between 7-8,000 arrivals on a weekday in the mid to late 1980s - so roughly around 4m passengers a year.

7500 x 2* x 5 x 52 = 3.9 million

* arrivals and departures

Plus weekend passengers ? Half the weekly amount ? That`d be another 750,000 odd ? Say 4.5 million a year in total ?