London Midland 110mph

[Badger]

Ah I see, and I guess the thing stopping them ordering tilting pendelino-style trains is platform length and cost.

 

[tbtc]

the 350s that are being sub-leased to TPE will have a more inter-city style layout but I don't think anyone has clarified what this actually means.

My hunch is that this will be a fairly minor difference - they are going to have the same body as a normal 350 and are presumably going to be pooled in with the large LM fleet of 350s in a few years (once their brief time on TPE has finished), so all the speculation on forums of different doors etc can be forgotten about - maybe better seats (a mico-buffet?), but I doubt they'll be *that* different from the other LM 350s

 

[Greeby]

Here's the full details on Project 110
http://www.northamptonrug.org.uk/documents/pdf/111021 Project 110 SLC Consultation Documents.pdf

(For full timetables, see Appendix B on page 22)

 

[Wath Yard]

A 350/1 clone would be my bet. 2+2 seating and a couple of tables, that seems to be what passes as an acceptable standard for long distance services these days.

 

[ainsworth74]

My hunch is that this will be a fairly minor difference - they are going to have the same body as a normal 350 and are presumably going to be pooled in with the large LM fleet of 350s in a few years (once their brief time on TPE has finished), so all the speculation on forums of different doors etc can be forgotten about - maybe better seats (a mico-buffet?), but I doubt they'll be *that* different from the other LM 350s

Same really. My guess is that they'll have roughly the same layout as 185s with the same sort of first class layout as well.

 

[IanXC]

Here's the full details on Project 110
http://www.northamptonrug.org.uk/documents/pdf/111021 Project 110 SLC Consultation Documents.pdf

(For full timetables, see Appendix B on page 22)

This document talks about modifications to 350/1 stock. Now presumably the 350/3s will be delivered with these modifications, but to me this sounds like the diagramming will prevent 350/2s (and their 2+3 seating) appearing on the long distance services.

 

[The Planner]

Id ignore the timetables in that, rumour has it that there will be a bit of chopping and changing.

 

[tbtc]

Same really. My guess is that they'll have roughly the same layout as 185s with the same sort of first class layout as well.

That sounds fair - for all those getting excited about "more Intercity" they need to consider that the DfT may well think that a 185 interior is perfectly suitable for such journeys (and that an "Intercity" standard of interior isn't going to automatically be what it was under BR twenty years ago)

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know whether the units going to FTPE (for Manchester-Carlisle-Scotland) will be 110mph cleared?

Yes all 20 units are being ordered as 110 mph. The OJEU contract award statement confirmed this a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.publictenders.net/tender/134546

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

TPE need 110-capable trains, and with them getting 350's to compete with Virgin Trains AFAIK, it seems right for LM to be getting some as well.

 

[Eagle]

Do we know whether the units going to FTPE (for Manchester-Carlisle-Scotland) will be 110mph cleared?

Yes, the new 350/3s for TPE will be 110 mph-capable.
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TPE need 110-capable trains, and with them getting 350's to compete with Virgin Trains AFAIK, it seems right for LM to be getting some as well.

Other way round. LM ordered some new go-faster 350s, and TPE's order for electric stock was tacked onto it.
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Yes all 20 units are being ordered as 110 mph. The OJEU contract award statement confirmed this a couple of weeks ago.

Thought it was only 18 units (72 vehicles)? Ten for TPE and eight for LM.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thought it was only 18 units (72 vehicles)? Ten for TPE and eight for LM.

No the order when it was actually placed was bumped up to 80 vehicles forming 20 units.

 

[Eagle]

No the order when it was actually placed was bumped up to 80 vehicles forming 20 units.

Split 10/10, 11/9 or 12/8?

 

[tbtc]

Split 10/10, 11/9 or 12/8?

Apparently, 80 Class 350 carriages are being ordered, meaning LM getting an additional 2 x 4 car trains over the original proposal.


Desiro EMUs for London Midland and TPE ordered at last. 10 four cars for each operator. Contract value £148 million.
http://twitter.com/#!/Captain_Deltic

Here's where LM announced they were expecting 8 extra 350s:
http://www.londonmidland.com/news/l...n-midland-and-for-first-transpennine-express/

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59804

 

[transmanche]

Split 10/10, 11/9 or 12/8?

The contract award statement that swt_passenger linked to says 10/10.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

The benefit of this is that the TOCs can loan to each other if they would need to as well. (I'd like to see LM running Manchester-Glasgow soooo much you see)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The benefit of this is that the TOCs can loan to each other if they would need to as well. (I'd like to see LM running Manchester-Glasgow soooo much you see)

I'm intrigued, why are you so eager to see London Midland running this service?

 

[Geezertronic]

The benefit of this is that the TOCs can loan to each other if they would need to as well. (I'd like to see LM running Manchester-Glasgow soooo much you see)

Why would London Midland run from Manchester to Glasgow? Surely the clue is in their name?

 

[cle]

Where north of Wigan (thinking TPE) is cleared for 110 running - no tilt?

 

[Eagle]

Where north of Wigan (thinking TPE) is cleared for 110 running - no tilt?

Most of it (away from stations), in fact. Although some of the twisty Cumbrian bits are only 105, 100 or even 95 non-tilt.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I'm intrigued, why are you so eager to see London Midland running this service?

You got it wrong. If a TPE train fails and LM are capable of running a replacement, that's what I meant. I really like to see trains where they shouldn't be, e.g. LM at Oxenholme, First Great Western lurking Northallerton, or even Transpennine down in Plymouth!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You got it wrong. If a TPE train fails and LM are capable of running a replacement, that's what I meant. I really like to see trains where they shouldn't be, e.g. LM at Oxenholme, First Great Western lurking Northallerton, or even Transpennine down in Plymouth!

London Midland's nearest depot containing spare 350s would at a guess be in Northampton...
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With good notice you might have a chance of seeing that, but I doubt a failure on the day would see LM up there.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Ah, I see. It would take probably 3 hours to get a replacement up non-stop I guess. Or it could run a ghost all the way up.

 

[sprinterguy]

You got it wrong. If a TPE train fails and LM are capable of running a replacement, that's what I meant. I really like to see trains where they shouldn't be, e.g. LM at Oxenholme, First Great Western lurking Northallerton, or even Transpennine down in Plymouth!

It's very unlikely that London Midland and TPE would share resources in that way any more than they do now. It's not nearly as simple as just swapping trains between operators because they are the same time (Although granted the odd unit will go on loan to another operator from time to time).
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Why would London Midland run from Manchester to Glasgow? Surely the clue is in their name?

Well Transpennine Express running from Manchester to Blackpool, Barrow and Glasgow isn't particularly representative of their title...

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

What you stated in the brackets was basically what I meant.

 

[Pumbaa]

Id ignore the timetables in that, rumour has it that there will be a bit of chopping and changing.

Yes there's currently no Up timetable... Still being worked on to avoid running via Northants. It just doesn't work at the moment.

 

[the sniper]

Why would London Midland run from Manchester to Glasgow? Surely the clue is in their name?

London Midland?

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Misses out Euxton, so that's old and invalid...

 

[AlterEgo]

From April 1st , with their original franchise end date passing, Virgin no longer have Moderation of Competition protection on the route. If however LM tried to run this service today, Virgin would be bound to object as they are required to do by the current franchise spec. That is precisely why LM are proposing it to start some time after April 1st.

There is plenty of official info available about this in the track access apllication sections of both ORR and NR's websites, none of the correspondence mentions any Virgin Trains objections. The 110 mph running does definitely apply to existing 350s, this has already been discussed in a number of earlier threads in this forum on this same topic...

A very well informed post.

Virgin Trains cannot object to this improvement in service - there are no grounds for it once the Moderation of Competition agreement expires. It'd be futile.
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I really like to see trains where they shouldn't be, e.g. LM at Oxenholme, First Great Western lurking Northallerton, or even Transpennine down in Plymouth!

This has got absolutely nothing to do with the operational railway...

 

[ainsworth74]

Misses out Euxton, so that's old and invalid...

What was the clue? The old lines that don't exist? The fact it says British Railways at the top? Or the date of 1961 in the URL?