London Midland and Wembley Central

[SprinterMan]

Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore?
Silverlink used to serve it hourly.
Adam

 

[RJ]

Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore?
Silverlink used to serve it hourly.
Adam

Probably because there is no need. There are already at least 6tph to London/Harrow from Wembley Central during the day.

 

[gnolife]

I'd suggest that it might be down to a shortage of paths - in the same way that the half hourly peak service between the Mid-Cheshire line and Manchester got reduced to make way for a 3rd Euston service, LM might have been told to cut Wembley stops out. This is just what I think would be a likely reason anyway.

 

[cle]

They only really served it at night and at events - usually weekends so easier anyway.

There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph service - this was also when Bushey was served outside of the peaks regularly.

Those trains were popular but absolutely ate faster paths. With EPS coming, combined with 321s, the pathing for 'LM' expresses on the fast tracks was impossible and these trains were canned, with the exception of Bushey ones.

Queens Park is the busiest station between Euston and Birmingham, or Manchester. The slow trains are hugely used - there is easily scope (and desire) in the future for semi-fast trains to return to Queens Park especially with lots of development planned. It's a major interchange for the area.

Wembley Central I would think could also sustain some - Southern take a stopping path of course which an LM could take - but they are largely separate until then (heading northbound).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph I]

Poorly used and not a good use of paths , esecially as WCML Route mod was about to push more traffic onto the slow lines after PUG2 was signed. Due to Travelcard issues , the revenue aportionment was also very low.

Bushey now enjoys a full all day 30 min service - which has done very well

 

[t0ffeeman]

The DC off peak service was also reduced to a 30 min frequency during this period c1996? Also the Clapham service had just changed to 313s from 117s et al and the NLL had started running again. However the Abbey remained as a 313 IIRC.

So this service seemed to be part of a much larger unit juggling operation.

 

[al green]

Queens Park is the busiest station between Euston and Birmingham, or Manchester. The slow trains are hugely used - there is easily scope (and desire) in the future for semi-fast trains to return to Queens Park especially with lots of development planned. It's a major interchange for the area.

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

 

[cle]

Including the tube? Which I think is perfectly valid, given interchange possibility.

 

[ushawk]

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

I would have thought that Rugby, Birmingham Intl, Northampton and Watford, maybe a couple of other stations are higher too.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The DC off peak service was also reduced to a 30 min frequency during this period c1996? Also the Clapham service had just changed to 313s from 117s et al and the NLL had started running again. However the Abbey remained as a 313 IIRC.

So this service seemed to be part of a much larger unit juggling operation.

Near enough right - the DC came back to 3 tph very shortly after NX took over from BR , - and the main line shuttle of 1 tph Watford / 1 tph Bletchley to Euston off peak calling at Bushey , Harrow , Wembley , Queens Park and Euston reverted back to 2 tph to MK calling Harrow , Bushey etc etc

There was no real issue with the 313 fleet at the time as there were , I think 24 sets for 21 diagrams , 6 DC , 2 Clapham , 1 Abbey and 10 NLL with an am peak short working diagram from Stratford LL to Camden Road.

Taking the DC to 30 mins off peak was a daft idea , and one I was glad to reverse quickly - the main line shuttle idea didnt really perform , apart form the glorious success of an all day Bushey main line service pattern.

 

[Mojo]

Including the tube? Which I think is perfectly valid, given interchange possibility.

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

I would have thought that Rugby, Birmingham Intl, Northampton and Watford, maybe a couple of other stations are higher too.

With the Underground, there are over 7½ Million journeys to or from Queens Park station per year. I am not sure if there can be any other stations along the line other than Euston or New Street that have this number of customers per year.

 

[ushawk]

With the Underground, there are over 7½ Million journeys to or from Queens Park station per year. I am not sure if there can be any other stations along the line other than Euston or New Street that have this number of customers per year.

Wow, i had no idea it was that amount and had no idea it was that used !!

 

[Robinson]

They only really served it at night and at events - usually weekends so easier anyway.

There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph service - this was also when Bushey was served outside of the peaks regularly.

I believe LM still does serve Bushey all day...

 

[causton]

I believe LM still does serve Bushey all day...

Indeed, I took it to mean that all 3 stations could be served together without resulting in zero paths!

 

[shaun]

It's served hourly (Sundays excepted) by Southern services, which is good but no good for anybody travelling to Central London. Wembley to London is a long haul on London Overground or London Underground, so it'd be nice to have a regular mainline service from there. The Southern service is currently Pick-up only in the Clapham direction, set-down only in the Watford direction. It would be most useful for people going north, so not sure why it does this? Also they keep the platforms locked until a couple of minutes before the train arrives, and there are no ticket barriers as the stairs lead straight to the street area.

Most people use Chiltern at the moment, but given the option i'm sure alot of them would be tempted onto LM.

 

[Poggs]

Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore?
Silverlink used to serve it hourly.

Which year was this?

I can't recall Wembley Central getting anything more than 2tph when there were engineering works on the Metro service, along with one of the very early morning trains and one of the very late night trains.

 

[OxtedL]

... The Southern service is currently Pick-up only in the Clapham direction, set-down only in the Watford direction. It would be most useful for people going north, so not sure why it does this?

I think (don't quote me) that this is one of the more bizarre consequences of Virgin's Moderation of Competition setup. Possibly related to Kensington Olympia. I can't find the details though for some reason.

 

[Pumbaa]

It was due to MoC yes.

Restriction was lifted on 1st April and the set down/pick up notes are now absent from Southern timetables.

 

[cle]

Which year was this?

I can't recall Wembley Central getting anything more than 2tph when there were engineering works on the Metro service, along with one of the very early morning trains and one of the very late night trains.

It was mid-late 90s. Both Wembley Central and Queens Park had 2tph which ran to Watford and Bletchley/MK.

They also called at Bushey, which is what led to Bushey having all day service. Queens Park could quite easily support peak calls in terms of demand, and as a tube interchange would be better for many than going via Euston - but pathing would be very hard.

 

[SprinterMan]

Which year was this?

I can't recall Wembley Central getting anything more than 2tph when there were engineering works on the Metro service, along with one of the very early morning trains and one of the very late night trains.

I have the May-Sept 2000 National Rail timetable book here and Silverlink actually run a half-hourly service to Wembley Central, with one train going to Northampton and one to Bimingham.
Calling pattern:
London Euston - Wembley Central - Watford Junction - Hemel Hempstead - Berkhamstead - Leighton Buzzard - Bletchley - Milton Keyenes - Wolverton - Northampton (- Long Buckby - Rugby - Coventry - Birmingham Int. - Birmingham New Street)

There was an EUS-MKC train than ran fast to Harrow & Wealdstone then all stations to MKC, so while this was the train that served Bushey it did not serve Wembley Central.

Adam

 

[12CSVT]

Also they keep the platforms locked until a couple of minutes before the train arrives, and there are no ticket barriers as the stairs lead straight to the street area.

I think this could be related to issues with air turbulence when a fast train passes through, due to the design of the station (and the fact it is enclosed under the A404 overbridge).

 

[NSE]

I think this could be related to issues with air turbulence when a fast train passes through, due to the design of the station (and the fact it is enclosed under the A404 overbridge).

That is exactly the reason, although the staff have got it wrong a couple of times as a London Midland train is pathed through about five minutes before, and I have been let onto the platform as a 350 comes flying through. The turbulence is quite impressive, something like an empty child's pram would easily get knocked over. They have however recently reconnected it to the ticket barrier entrance. So now you pass through the barriers and wait by the top of the stairs.