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London Midland problems

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scotsman

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Didn't he win an award early this year for the twitter feed? Certainly well deserved (assuming he actually did and it isn't my memory playing tricks). It shame some other TOCs don't have a dedicated enough member of staff to run something like this.

He did, yes. Well, technically, I think the award went to LM. The difference is that some twitter feeds are run by customer relations staff in between calls, letters and emails. For example, @Scotrail, which is shockingly awful at times (Indeed, they seem to pick and choose who they respond to)
 
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RichmondCommu

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Okay then, allow me to go into further detail if my slightly tired brain can allow that

Then the abuse from staff; do you think it is acceptable that a member of staff should choose to ridicule the way you look,

Ian, describe to me how you looked and I'll pass judgment on whether they were right to ridicule you. Now you can't say fairer than that. Dressed as a pantomime horse makes you an easy target in my opinion.
 

dvboy

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LM should employ a person or two to do Twitter all day (with other jobs when it's quiet) so that David can concentrate on his proper work. It must be hard on his family that some days he'll be working from 5am through to midnight, so I hope there is someone to take over when he can't. That said, I think he'd be reluctant to give the job to others as he is clearly very proud of it despite some of the abuse people seem to be so easy to give out online.

Back to ticket checks and I find they are done less often within the Network West Midlands area as in theory this is a penalty fare area and most people will be travelling to/from New Street or Snow Hill where there are barriers. Certainly in my experience it's rare to be checked on any train to/from Birmingham prior to/until past Wolverhampton. That goes for most TOCs.
 

Ivo

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I have to agree with the great majority here. LM guards are surely some of the better ones out there. I have had one return journey experience on both the Abbey and Marston Vale routes (with one Ian Poole in the same carriage for one journey), and various experiences with them elsewhere, and have almost always been checked for tickets.

There are plentiful other routes out there were the commercial aspect of the Guard's duty is either overly-enforced or not enforced enough. In my experience, ATW seem to be an example of the strict end, and FGW seem to be at the lenient end, but not one operator stands out as not fulfilling its duties to an unreasonably poor degree.
 

duffman82

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I can tell you for a fact that guards do not check tickets from London Euston to Northampton, on any part of the Snow Hill lines, on any part of The Chase Line out of Birmingham nor the Birmingham - Liverpool line

With my recent back and forths between Wolves and Lime Street i can tell you i got checked everytime.
 

IanPooleTrains

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Ian, describe to me how you looked and I'll pass judgment on whether they were right to ridicule you. Now you can't say fairer than that. Dressed as a pantomime horse makes you an easy target in my opinion.

Okay then, short brown hair, black bodywarmer, blue fleece, blue shirt and a pair of black trousers with a day-glo yellow hat (yes fans of the day-glo yellow hat and you know who you are just wet themselves), a pair of gloves, black, blue trainers
 

mullin

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Have to admit whenever I travel with Virgin from the north (Manc or Wigan generally) I always check the LM Twitter feed for updates. Although I'm not the person to be upset by 5 minute delays our what not, the constant feed from David is excellent on any minor delays, alternative routes through disruption are, I'm sure, appeciated by many besides myself. He also has someone called Fiona that I've seen stop in and provide valuable support online whilst he's not around (catching up on sleep maybe - ha ha). Both do a cracking job and provide honest answers, pathing issues, cancelling some trains = more disruption later in the day so had to cancel, staff illnes, cows on the line etc etc etc. Suppose as well having someone in a 'higher' position with instant access to disruption info and key facts is part of the success in an award winning twitter feed. If only Northern could do more when someone calls them a name and they choose to say please don't abuse us, but not ask why and care about the reasons why the passenger / customer feels that way....
 

IanPooleTrains

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Allow me to bring some maths into this

Now roughly a standard single from say Walsall to Rugeley Town (I'm just using it as an example, no biased) is £4.50 roughly

Now let's take a typical two car turbostar which holds 131 passengers and run it empty from Birmingham to Walsall (not likely but still) and fill it all seated at Walsall with everyone going to RGT without a ticket and the guard doesn't come down and check tickets. For that one specific journey, LM lose £570 but then you take that same journey with the exact same scenario over the fiscal year (if that is the right word to use) LM lose for that one specific journey over the year around about £15,000 - £20,000.

What would that buy you nowadays?
 

crewmeal

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I can tell you for a fact that guards do not check tickets from London Euston to Northampton, on any part of the Snow Hill lines, on any part of The Chase Line out of Birmingham nor the Birmingham - Liverpool line

Sorry to say Mr Poole your wrong. You shouldn't 'tar everyone with the same brush' Last Friday 2 of us went on a £20 day pass around the region which included Snow Hill to Worcester and the guard checked tickets after every stop. Worcester to Hereford the same. Arriva Hereford to Shrewsbury the same. Crewe to Lichfield the same. Lichfield to Brum the same. The only time they didn't check was between Shrewsbury and Crewe and that was because the 2 car train became a sardine can.
 

Squaddie

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The last time I travelled with London Midland, all the toilets were locked and out of use upon departure from London. By the time we left Northampton this was causing extreme discomfort amongst the passengers, and there was one young girl who was crying because she wanted to go to the toilet and couldn't. There was a rising sense of panic, and no sign of train crew.

Eventually I went to find the guard, who was in the drivers' cab at the back of the train. I had to knock very hard several times before he emerged. I insisted that he had to open at least one of the toilets even if it wasn't fully operational. He very grudgingly went through the train and opened them all - they were simply locked, and not out of order at all.

And then he went back to his little room and, presumably, back to sleep. He wasn't seen again all the way to Birmingham.
 

HH

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The last time I travelled with London Midland, all the toilets were locked and out of use upon departure from London. By the time we left Northampton this was causing extreme discomfort amongst the passengers, and there was one young girl who was crying because she wanted to go to the toilet and couldn't. There was a rising sense of panic, and no sign of train crew.

Eventually I went to find the guard, who was in the drivers' cab at the back of the train. I had to knock very hard several times before he emerged. I insisted that he had to open at least one of the toilets even if it wasn't fully operational. He very grudgingly went through the train and opened them all - they were simply locked, and not out of order at all.

And then he went back to his little room and, presumably, back to sleep. He wasn't seen again all the way to Birmingham.

I hope you reported him. How are LM to fix the bad ones if they are allowed to get away with it?
 

Matt Taylor

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On 350s the guard works exactly the same as we do on SWT on the 450s, our priority is ALWAYS safety, customer service and tickets come second unfortunately. On the 323s the guards door panel is in the cab which makes ticket checking very difficult on routes such as the cross city line with lots of stops.

I travel more on LM than any other TOC except my own and have never had a problem with them, the OP has a chip on his shoulder and is not being objective about anything. The comment about being unhappy that a certain member of staff hadn't been sacked is exactly the kind of nonsense that one would expect from people who are jealous that they don't/can't work on the railway.

The whole thing is just an ignorant ill-informed rant.
 

AlterEgo

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I'll be honest and say London Midland are one of the better TOCs out there, staff-wise. I've met a few dopey ones, but you expect that over the course of using them for several years.

As others have said, on the recent WMDR bash the staff were all polite and ticket checks were prompt and efficient.

I just can't marry up the OP's experiences to my own, I'm afraid.
 

jaigee

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I am a regular traveller on the LM Crewe and Liverpool services and ticket checks can be sporadic to say the least. North of Crewe they are virtually non existent.

On the whole, the Crewe service tends to have a better ratio of checks than the Liverpool one.

I usually look down to see who the guard is before boarding and, by past experience, I can usually tell if there is going to be a check or not.
 

gary47

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I usually find them quite good,the only thing I don't like,is when they cancel services on a Sunday.
 

Green Lane

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I've always been very happy with London Midland.

Although the main TOCs that I frequently use are Arriva Trains Wales and Merseyrail, I do use London Midland about a dozen times a year to get to London and Birmingham.

This Tuesday, my train from Liverpool was cancelled (I was going to London). I think this was down to infrastructure problems, so not the fault of LM.

Within two days, LM refunded me all tickets for the whole day (which in the event I was unable to use due to the initial cancellation), including one portion which was an advance ticket. (To be honest I thought that may have been non-refundable). So I'm really very happy with that.

I was following their twitter feed yesterday during the Wolverhampton chaos and even in the face of abuse (swearing and incivility) sent by a small minority of upset passengers, the customer support person remained completely professional, helpful and civil through out.

Hats off to them for that.

Even once when my train was cancelled as I changed at Smethwick GB (due to a signal fault near Tipton), they accepted my advance ticket on two completely different services, without hesitation. So I still got home OK, at no extra expense. (and there were no such "you must have the right tickets for this service" type announcements, which I think operators should avoid where practical when there has been serious disruption, as it just causes more worry for delayed passengers).

Likewise, when the trains are running fine, I have to admit, I've found the staff to be ovewhelmingly polite, helpful and extremely well mannered.

If my experience ever changes and I have a bad one, I'd be the first to post it. (Like I say I'm not a regular LM commuter), but my experience of travelling with them over the last couple of years has been really superb.

That also includes when I travelled on the the Cross City line and on the Snow Hill lines, as well as the WCML.
 
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whhistle

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Today, we had at least five different reasons why trains were late, cancelled, delayed ranging from a signalling fault to no train crew to rolling stock not available and mostly on the same train!
Well, I can see this as it's hard for the TOC.

  • Say there was a signalling fault, so a train is delayed [Signalling problem].
  • It terminates late in Birmingham, then starts out on it's new service (30 mins late) [Late due to a previous signalling problem].
  • Then the train arrives at another station but the guard which is taking the set forward is delayed (due to the signalling fault) [No train crew].
  • When the guard turns up, the train is now 60 mins late, so it's return service is cancelled [No rolling stock].
That's four reasons right there.

The real problem is for the TOC to decide which reason to give. Really it should be Signalling problems, earlier signalling problems as that is the root cause of the service being delayed but it's easy to give the now current reason instead of explaining what has happened before.

The other problem of course is Network Rail. If a line is blocked, some trains may have to be cancelled to ease congestion for other services.



Then you have the fact that we had three trains at Hednesford this evening, all were delayed by the same amount of train but the one we come on gets terminated short but the other two are allowed to carry on, surely that cannot be right can it
This is sometimes common practice. They will terminate trains early so they can form their service working back on time while others will be allowed to carry on and get later and later, with their return service being severly late or cancelled altogether.

If you are so beefed up about them not checking tickets, don't pay. *shrugs*



For some *coughFirstCapitalConnectcough* TOCs, the passengers with their smartphones out have more info from Twitter and the National Rail websites than the driver does!
Although perhaps sad to say, this is true.
You don't even need a smart phone as Twitter can text your phone with updates. But then why don't companies capitalise on this more? Then all this about "Passenger Information During Disruption" will be easier to implement as everyone, staff and passengers will know the same info.



Then the abuse from staff; do you think it is acceptable that a member of staff should choose to ridicule the way you look, ridicule your choice in lifestyle and make comments that you might find offensive? Would you turn around and say to someone that they are sad, they are pathetic or just stand by idolly and shake your head because they have taken a photograph of the train?
While this doesn't excuse them, they work with trains every day and probably see no more interest in them than chewing gum on the street. There is a certain territory that comes with being interested in trains and unfortunately it will take a good number of years before this is shaken off of society.



As for the guards in general, the job of a guard is defined as the following:
Where is that from? London Midland's website?
Remember, what is written and what actually happens is quite different.



I can categorically say you are wrong on quite a few of these points.
Actually, you can't. Not to out-geek anyone here, as people enjoy doing bu you're both wrong as you have both had different journey experiences.
Categorically: adjective
1. Without exceptions or conditions; absolute; unqualified and unconditional: a categorical denial.

You can't categorically say they do ticket checks when there is someone else who obviously isn't lying saying the opposite :P
 

HH

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The experience of a commuter travelling on the same trains each day and a casual traveller who uses a number of different services may be completely different.
 

newtownmgr

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If you don't like LM then the easy answer is don't use them!

If your complaints are genuine then take them to LM with dates & times & evidence to back up your complaints, if you don't have them (which i suspect you don't) then stop complaining.

When LM respond post the response on here then you might get some respect back (or not)!

I can remember before i retired somebody making complaints to several toc's over various issues, in the end it was discovered that he had failed in several attempts to get on the railway and had been caught several times fare dodging and tresspassing. I am not saying that is the case with you, but years(47) on the railway make me a bit cynical!!
 

IanPooleTrains

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If you don't like LM then the easy answer is don't use them!

If your complaints are genuine then take them to LM with dates & times & evidence to back up your complaints, if you don't have them (which i suspect you don't) then stop complaining.

When LM respond post the response on here then you might get some respect back (or not)!

I can remember before i retired somebody making complaints to several toc's over various issues, in the end it was discovered that he had failed in several attempts to get on the railway and had been caught several times fare dodging and tresspassing. I am not saying that is the case with you, but years(47) on the railway make me a bit cynical!!

You say don't use LM to get to Stafford, Walsall, Lichfield, Cannock, might I ask you who else I can use apart from Arriva buses which is a totally different tangent altogether?

My complaints are very genuine and from the sounds of it, IMO, you are trying to incite an argument. Has it come to a point where a general point and a general opinion mean that i lose all respect? If that is the case, and I hope that it is not, maybe I don't want your respect and maybe you need to remember that everyone has a point, everyone's point will be different to others and not everyone is going to like what someone has to say :)
 

OxtedL

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Ian, if you are going to post a statement of any kind on a forum, expect it to be debated. There is no reasonable way to avoid this. You can't just say something and then hide behind a "wait, are you trying to argue with me?!".

If you don't wish this to happen, post a question instead. That way, other people get to decide what to argue about.

You have made yourself look foolish by making sweeping statements about a TOC based on minimal evidence. I too add my voice to the many who have said, for example, that they have always had their ticket checked on London Midland services.
 

tbtc

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My complaints are very genuine and from the sounds of it, IMO, you are trying to incite an argument

I think I know who is trying to incite an argument.

LM do the best they can with the hand of cards dealt to them. They inherited a complicated set of routes, playing second fiddle to other TOCs on congested Birmingham lines, inheriting a discrepancy in staff conditions (not their fault, but made worse by some Union pressure to "level up" both salary and holidays).

Many of the cancellations appear to be because of NR or because of other TOCs.

The more you understand the situation that they are in, the more you appreciate the work they are doing to improve things.
 

ralphchadkirk

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The first word that sprung to mind when reading this thread was waffle.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
 

IanPooleTrains

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Ian, if you are going to post a statement of any kind on a forum, expect it to be debated. There is no reasonable way to avoid this. You can't just say something and then hide behind a "wait, are you trying to argue with me?!".

If you don't wish this to happen, post a question instead. That way, other people get to decide what to argue about.

You have made yourself look foolish by making sweeping statements about a TOC based on minimal evidence. I too add my voice to the many who have said, for example, that they have always had their ticket checked on London Midland services.

I am not saying don't debate it and I have certainly not made sweeping statements based on minimal evidence, I have brought you fact!

FACT: They do not check tickets all the time
FACT: They make up measly and pathetic excuses to cover up real issues
FACT: Their staff do not have great customer service skills and do not do their jobs, do not carry out that job to the fullest and do leave early from stations

If you want further proof on that fact, why don't you have someone go check a website whereby they can show you the actual times that the 2017 out of Birmingham New Street left it's designated stations and they will see that it arrived two minutes early, sometimes on time, at all stations but left all bar one station one minute early and then go and check others and they will see a consistent pattern!

Then OxtedL, buddy, ask yourself who is the fool then!

Fresh start, same old..............
 

yorkie

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...IMO, you are trying to incite an argument...
If you have a problem with any post, either ignore it, or if appropriate use the report button (
report.gif
). However in this case, given the context, I don't think that is the case.

I think the general consensus of opinion is that your experiences are not typical, and have not been shared by other members who have used LM services on the lines in question.

However I am sure if you have specific complaints about particular incidents that are worthy of investigation (such as the alleged insulting language, or the incident mentioned by another member where all toilets were locked out of use) then if you contact LM they will look into them.

Unfortunately you have placed the moderators in a difficult situation as it is inevitable that some people are going to be unhappy at reading this thread and may want to say things that are inappropriate. Fortunately the vast majority of people who have been unhappy have been very restrained.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Ian, you really do not help yourself sometimes. You say you wanted a fresh start yet you continue with the same attitude?
 

SS4

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Allow me to bring some maths into this

Now roughly a standard single from say Walsall to Rugeley Town (I'm just using it as an example, no biased) is £4.50 roughly

Now let's take a typical two car turbostar which holds 131 passengers and run it empty from Birmingham to Walsall (not likely but still) and fill it all seated at Walsall with everyone going to RGT without a ticket and the guard doesn't come down and check tickets. For that one specific journey, LM lose £570 but then you take that same journey with the exact same scenario over the fiscal year (if that is the right word to use) LM lose for that one specific journey over the year around about £15,000 - £20,000.

What would that buy you nowadays?

Your assumptions are hardly accurate. First you've assumed nobody is travelling after half 6 (all the Chase Line is covered by the centro evening deal). Secondly, this completely discounts season ticket holders.

I am not saying don't debate it and I have certainly not made sweeping statements based on minimal evidence, I have brought you fact!

FACT: They do not check tickets all the time

This is a fact. In LM's defence it would be nearly impossible to do so.

FACT: They make up measly and pathetic excuses to cover up real issues

The words measly and pathetic are subjective by definition so there is no way this can be fact.

FACT: Their staff do not have great customer service skills and do not do their jobs, do not carry out that job to the fullest and do leave early from stations

A link to the job description of LM staff would be a great way to corroborate your accusation. The word great is also subjective.

If you want further proof on that fact, why don't you have someone go check a website whereby they can show you the actual times that the 2017 out of Birmingham New Street left it's designated stations and they will see that it arrived two minutes early, sometimes on time, at all stations but left all bar one station one minute early and then go and check others and they will see a consistent pattern!

That happening proves only that the 2017 ex-BHM was early. It does not prove that trains consistently leave early.


Fresh start, same old..............

I neither know nor care what happened in the past but the second post I quoted shows an antagonistic attitude towards anyone who disagrees with you.
 

OxtedL

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I am not saying don't debate it and I have certainly not made sweeping statements based on minimal evidence, I have brought you fact!

[etc]

Then OxtedL, buddy, ask yourself who is the fool then!

Fresh start, same old..............

You appear to have contradicted yourself there, in a big way. Particularly if you actually read my post.

You need to expect people to disagree with you. Avoid calling them names and suchlike and they will show you courtesy in response. You might not like what you see, but to be honest this is the internet.

I have run out of interesting things to say about London Midland, but fortunately that's all more or less covered now anyway.
 

NSE

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Ian, Firstly I don't think any TOC has a 100% ticket check record. Virgin don't. I was on BHM-EUS service and did not get my ticket checked once, nor did my entire carriage. I know there was a train manager as he was running up and down the train sorting out a problem. This situation happens many a time with all TOC's i'm sure. (feel free to prove otherwise).

Secondly, I have been on two BHM-LIV services, both times, ticket checked and also asked for my railcard (ticket was out of my wallet). So can't get much more thorough than that.
I also have had a London Midland service cancelled on me, and they were very pleasant to deal with and issued me a full refund.
To be honest, I can't complain, or see any major failings here at all.
 
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