London Midland seek talks over new units (rumour)

[Class172]

I think the proposal is for a 3 tph service, alternating with a 3 tph to Redditch?

But whatever the stage of the actual planning, the Oct update to the CP4 delivery plan reported that the third party funding (from the local authority?) was yet again 'in doubt'...

There's also the hourly BHM-HFD service.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Standing on commuter railways is commonplace the world over.

Yes standing on commuter services is inevitable and sadly an acceptable part of working life these days but please stop stirring up the the people on this forum that think that LM have to many trains, it is not the case.

We all agree that capacity needs improving across the network but seeing a unit in a siding outside the peak does not mean another area can have it.

If the north, south west or elsewhere needs more stealing ours is not the answer, lobbying your own elected leaders is!!!! rant now over for now.

 

[Nym]

Welkl in that case, since it has some support, can we order some 45 - 55 3 car 380 units for Northern and some more with 1st class accomadation for TPE, nice big 200+ vehicle order, so nice and cheap, class 380, already approved and have an 'openish' production line...

Then LM can have an extra 17 323s...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Welkl in that case, since it has some support, can we order some 45 - 55 3 car 380 units for Northern and some more with 1st class accomadation for TPE, nice big 200+ vehicle order, so nice and cheap, class 380, already approved and have an 'openish' production line...

Then LM can have an extra 17 323s...

It's an option why not.

 

[pemma]

Is there really that much of a need for capacity improvements in the Birmingham area? Aside during disruption whenever I see local trains in the morning and evening peak they aren't that crowded. Looking at the ''finding a seat'' page on the LM website, services aren't that busy, and those that are even out after just a few minutes into the journey.

The LM area probably isn't the worse in the country for overcrowding. DfT allocated the 150 cascade on a 'who needs extra diesel vehicles the most' basis and Northern got allocated the most, followed by FGW, then EMT (who indirectly benefited) and then LM.

However, saying that if the extra 172 vehicle order isn't placed soon we'll probably finish up in the same situation as with the 185 extra vehicles.

If it's true about Desiro City's then it's probably a case of wanting to cut costs. The procurement process won't be followed because it's an 'add-on' saving costs and the production line will be up and running.

Northern should be ordering new stock but the franchise end date causes an issue as the new stock would probably be delivered after the end date. Given Northern have small fleets of three different types of EMU and are expected to get a medium sized fleet of a fourth in the 319s, it would seem to make sense for Northern to get a fleet of Desiro City's, to keep the 333s and to cascade their 32xs.

 

[IanXC]

Northern should be ordering new stock but the franchise end date causes an issue as the new stock would probably be delivered after the end date. Given Northern have small fleets of three different types of EMU and are expected to get a medium sized fleet of a fourth in the 319s, it would seem to make sense for Northern to get a fleet of Desiro City's, to keep the 333s and to cascade their 32xs.

I'm not certain I share this view. If new stock is to be ordered for the Northern franchise as a whole I think its likely to end up being 3 car units. Given that it would seem unlikely we'll get unit capacities as high as the 323s again, this really means that, for the Yorkshire side of the franchise, capacity on many routes will be static.

I'd rather Northern take on more 321 stock for local services in Yorkshire seeing as I'm pretty certain there aren't any restrictive platform lengths to consider.

For the North West 4 car operation is clearly more problematic, but will in many cases be resolved by 2x 3 car operation which I fear would not happen on the Yorkshire routes. So all in all I see a good case for a differing rolling stock strategy for each side of the Pennines.

 

[tbtc]

I'm not certain I share this view. If new stock is to be ordered for the Northern franchise as a whole I think its likely to end up being 3 car units. Given that it would seem unlikely we'll get unit capacities as high as the 323s again, this really means that, for the Yorkshire side of the franchise, capacity on many routes will be static.

I'd rather Northern take on more 321 stock for local services in Yorkshire seeing as I'm pretty certain there aren't any restrictive platform lengths to consider.

For the North West 4 car operation is clearly more problematic, but will in many cases be resolved by 2x 3 car operation which I fear would not happen on the Yorkshire routes. So all in all I see a good case for a differing rolling stock strategy for each side of the Pennines.

I think that we need to know what the next franchise boundaries will be before we can start deciding on any medium/longer term plan for rolling stock across Northern England.

Am still not sure where the rumours in this thread have come from though...

 

[Mojo]

Yes standing on commuter services is inevitable and sadly an acceptable part of working life these days but please stop stirring up the the people on this forum that think that LM have to many trains, it is not the case.

I am not saying that units from LMR should be transferred anywhere else, but the fact is that I am not convinced by the need for even more trains for the urban railway in the West Midlands, as it simply isn't as crowded as elsewhere.