London Midland Short-Fare

[Kenconut]

Hi guys,

This morning I made an incredibly stupid decision. When I was travelling into Snow Hill Birmingham, I went to the ticket office after having forgotten to purchase a ticket from my source station (Rowley Regis), I figured that seeing as I was already at my destination I would try and see if I could pay for my ticket at a lower price (by declaring I got on at Jewellery Quarter as opposed to Rowley Regis). The man in the office wanted to enquire further about my journey to which I openly admitted I actually travelled from a different station, to which I profusely apologised and offered to instead pay for the price of my original ticket.

Unfortunately this did not go down well, and I had my details taken and was told to expect a letter some point in the future.

Can anybody give me any guidance on what to expect? I haven't seen many posts on this website about LondonMidland, and a lot of them advise being proactive and getting in touch with the relevant parties and offering a settlement sooner rather than later.

 

[Clip]

I would wait for the letter then come back and tell us what it says before any firm advice can be given.

I'm unsure with lm but I'm guessing an out of court settlement of around 100 would be in order

 

[mikeg]

The best thing to do is wait for the letter and then respond. We have had a few London Midland cases on here and they generally seem to settle for first time offenders, yet the ball is in their court.
When you do respond, be apologetic, reassure them you have learnt your lesson and won't do it again and offer to pay any costs they have incurred plus the original fare due. But most importantly wait for the letter first.

 

[gray1404]

I am amazed on here how many times people lie about the station they have come from and then when questioned they cave in and then admit the truth.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I suspect a lot of it is down to the inexperience of the short farer versus the experience of the staff.

There friends, colleagues, family tell them you can short fare to save money. They try it as a spur of the moment thing, pick a station too close to the destination to say they've come from and then get caught out by being questioned which they didn't expect.

 

[cuccir]

Can anybody give me any guidance on what to expect? I haven't seen many posts on this website about LondonMidland, and a lot of them advise being proactive and getting in touch with the relevant parties and offering a settlement sooner rather than later.

Usually the thing to do would be to wait to see what they write first. London Midland don't crop up very often on here but they have a few times in the last week or so; I don't know if that's coincidence or a sign that they're cracking down a little. Other than that addition, Mikeg's advice seems most pertinent.

 

[sarahj]

Half the time with short fare's is folks thinking we are stupid and born yesterday. One day I was working a Hove-Brighton shuttle and a passenger alighted from the Littlehampton - Victoria train, came up to me and asked for a ticket. The chat went like this: Can I get a ticket to Brighton please. Yes, where from. Hove. I watched you get off the London train, try again. Aldrington. The train does not stop there, try again. err, errr Shoreham.
But then again you get folks who insist that black is white and will not budge. So today I'm checking tickets on a Brighton to Seaford. It's 13.20. She does the ticket search, looking at tickets in her purse. It seems she has mislaid her ticket, but wait, whats that I see, a ticket from today, sold at 12.00, a child single from Crawley to Three Bridges. She is not a child (for one thing, why not in school), but no she would not have it, she would not buy a new ticket as she had one, just 'lost' it, denied that ticket was even hers. Alas, not much I can do. I pointed out the fact that she could get into serious trouble doing what did, and I have put in a report in case she is a regular, and perhaps one day she might turn up here about being hard done by the evil guard and her mind was on the long lost puppy she missed......

 

[MG11]

Hi guys,

This morning I made an incredibly stupid decision. When I was travelling into Snow Hill Birmingham, I went to the ticket office after having forgotten to purchase a ticket from my source station (Rowley Regis), I figured that seeing as I was already at my destination I would try and see if I could pay for my ticket at a lower price (by declaring I got on at Jewellery Quarter as opposed to Rowley Regis). The man in the office wanted to enquire further about my journey to which I openly admitted I actually travelled from a different station, to which I profusely apologised and offered to instead pay for the price of my original ticket.

Unfortunately this did not go down well, and I had my details taken and was told to expect a letter some point in the future.

Can anybody give me any guidance on what to expect? I haven't seen many posts on this website about LondonMidland, and a lot of them advise being proactive and getting in touch with the relevant parties and offering a settlement sooner rather than later.

You have committed an offence by attempting to evade the full fare due for your journey. Was your further questioning done by a ticket office clerk or a Revenue Protection Officer? The only thing you can do is respond to the letter you are about to receive with a grovelling apology, explaining how it was a moment of madness and that you are sorry, it won't happen again and offer them an out of court settlement, I'd suggest £600. They are, however under no obligation to accept this.

 

[mikeg]

You have committed an offence by attempting to evade the full fare due for your journey. Was your further questioning done by a ticket office clerk or a Revenue Protection Officer? The only thing you can do is respond to the letter you are about to receive with a grovelling apology, explaining how it was a moment of madness and that you are sorry, it won't happen again and offer them an out of court settlement, I'd suggest £600. They are, however under no obligation to accept this.

£600 is likely way too much for a simple short fare, unless it has happened over a long period of time. There is nothing to suggest this has happened here. I wouldn't initially specify an amount but instead let them come up with that. Just say their costs and the full fare due.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

£600 is likely way too much for a simple short fare, unless it has happened over a long period of time. There is nothing to suggest this has happened here. I wouldn't initially specify an amount but instead let them come up with that. Just say their costs and the full fare due.

Indeed. If I was in an office reading an apology with an offer of £600, I'd be immediately suspicious that the person had short-fared numerous times, and was offering way too much for a one-off offence...

 

[cuccir]

Agreed - don't suggest an amount. Say you'll pay the fare and costs incurred investigating. Let them then respond with an amount.

 

[142blue]

All of it seems a very silly thing to do to start off with. Wait until you get the letter and hope for the best outcome.

 

[BluePenguin]

I am amazed on here how many times people lie about the station they have come from and then when questioned they cave in and then admit the truth.

Life is not cheap these days and train tickets are particularly expensive so if people see an opportunity to save some cash, they will take it. Not to say that it is acceptable to short fare but the fact that people admit it at least shows they know the difference between right and wrong...whether they learn their lesson and not do it again after paying a fine is another question

 

[142blue]

Compared to buying a car and all the associated costs I personally believe rail travel is reasonable for commuting locally and at off peak times but some peak time fares are scary

 

[Kenconut]

The best thing to do is wait for the letter and then respond. We have had a few London Midland cases on here and they generally seem to settle for first time offenders, yet the ball is in their court.
When you do respond, be apologetic, reassure them you have learnt your lesson and won't do it again and offer to pay any costs they have incurred plus the original fare due. But most importantly wait for the letter first.

I had my letter arrive today.

The main body says the following:

"On 9th Nov 2017 a person giving the above name and address was questioned by a member of rail staff with regard to an alleged incident on London Midland Railway. This matter has been passed to RPSS (Revenue Protection Support Services) for investigation and is provisionally authorised for prosecution.

Before I proceed further, I invite you to respond by completing in full the bottom section of this letter, making any comments about the incident on the reverse, and send it to the above address within seven days."

I assume this means I should proceed with the writing, and offer to pay for any expenses and duress my actions caused etc., and then attach this alongside the given letter?

 

[najaB]

I assume this means I should proceed with the writing, and offer to pay for any expenses and duress my actions caused etc., and then attach this alongside the given letter?

Pretty much, yes. If you want to, you can post a draft here and we can advise if it's good or not.

 

[Kenconut]

Pretty much, yes. If you want to, you can post a draft here and we can advise if it's good or not.

Cheers for the swiftness in response, I'll draft one up for tomorrow morning to be sent off before the weekend. I think it's safe to say I'll be learning a life lesson from the outcome.

 

[Kenconut]

Pretty much, yes. If you want to, you can post a draft here and we can advise if it's good or not.

Here is a first draft. Can anyone please provide feedback on where to improve?

"
On the 9th November, I had gotten to my destination station (Snow Hill), and in an attempt to get a cheaper ticket fare, I opted to dishonestly tell rail staff my origin station as being one closer to my destination (Jewellery Quarter). Upon scrutiny, I had admitted to staff I had in fact arrived from a different origin station (Rowley Regis).

My actions were juvenile, cowardly, inconsiderate, and outright disrespectful to the nature of the service London Midland and its staff have provided me over the years for transport. I regret my actions from the moment I commit to them.

I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative, emotional, and mental costs I have put upon London Midland staff; alongside the cost of the ticket.
"

 

[najaB]

Here is a first draft. Can anyone please provide feedback on where to improve?

You've got the right sentiment, but perhaps have gone overboard a bit on the phrasing. I don't want to write the letter for you, but as an example your second paragraph could perhaps be a bit more like:

"This was a spur of the moment decision and out of character for me. I apologise for the disrespect I showed to both London Midland and my fellow passengers. I'm embarrassed by my actions and can assure you that I will not repeat this behaviour."

 

[Kenconut]

You've got the right sentiment, but perhaps have gone overboard a bit on the phrasing. I don't want to write the letter for you, but as an example your second paragraph could perhaps be a bit more like:

"This was a spur of the moment decision and out of character for me. I apologise for the disrespect I showed to both London Midland and my fellow passengers. I'm embarrassed by my actions and can assure you that I will not repeat this behaviour."

How would this seem? I've incorporated your feedback

"
On the 9th November, I had gotten to my destination station (Snow Hill), and in an attempt to get a cheaper ticket fare, I opted to dishonestly tell rail staff my origin station as being one closer to my destination (Jewellery Quarter). Upon scrutiny, I had admitted to staff I had in fact arrived from a different origin station (Rowley Regis).

My actions were juvenile, cowardly, inconsiderate, and outright disrespectful to the nature of the service London Midland and its staff have provided me over the years for transport. I apologise for the disrespect I showed to both London Midland and my fellow passengers.

This was a spur of the moment decision and out of character for me, and as such I'm embarrassed by my actions. I assure you that I will not repeat this behaviour.

I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative, emotional, and mental costs I have put upon London Midland staff; alongside the cost of the original ticket fare.
"

 

[Elecman]

I don’t think you need to mention the emotional and mental costs bit of the last paragraph

 

[Kenconut]

I don’t think you need to mention the emotional and mental costs bit of the last paragraph

What should I put instead of it? Also, would you say the rest of it is worded ok?

EDIT: Would this seem better?
"
I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative costs I have put upon London Midland staff; alongside the cost of the original ticket fare, as well as any others.
"

 

[TechMonkey]

That sounds better from my view as emotional and mental costs seems a bit over the stop, as emotions don't have a financial value

 

[TechMonkey]

Just don't go too over the top

 

[Kenconut]

Just don't go too over the top

What improvements do you think I could make on the following?

"
On the 9th November, I had gotten to my destination station (Snow Hill), and in an attempt to get a cheaper ticket fare, I opted to dishonestly tell rail staff my origin station as being one closer to my destination (Jewellery Quarter). Upon scrutiny, I had admitted to staff I had in fact arrived from a different origin station (Rowley Regis).

My actions were juvenile, cowardly, inconsiderate, and outright disrespectful to the nature of the service London Midland and its staff have provided me over the years for transport. I apologise for the disrespect I showed to both London Midland alongside fellow passengers.

This was a spur of the moment decision and out of character for me, and as such I'm embarrassed by my actions. I assure you that I will not repeat this behaviour.

I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative costs I have put upon London Midland staff; alongside the cost of the original ticket fare, as well as any others.
"

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Somewhere around post 22, the last sentence seems to have gained a few extra words:

as well as any others.

I don't think you want to say that. I'm not sure what it means, but if I was to hazard a guess, it is that you have paid the wrong fare on other occasions as well.

If you haven't paid the wrong fare on any other trip, then you don't want to be putting that thought into London Midland's mind.

If you have paid the wrong fare on other journeys, then you are doing the right thing being honest - but there are contributors here who will worry about helping you: as I understand it the ethos of this bulletin board is that no-one should be ripped off by railway companies, but neither should anyone be ripping the companies off by being less than honest.

On another point, you might want to add a sentence to the last paragraph to ask London Midland to suggest how much you should pay.

Taking these points together, you might want to make the last paragraph say something like

"I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative costs I have put upon London Midland staff, alongside the cost of the original ticket fare. I would be grateful if you could let me know what sum would be acceptable to you to bring this matter to an end."

 

[Kenconut]

Somewhere around post 22, the last sentence seems to have gained a few extra words:



I don't think you want to say that. I'm not sure what it means, but if I was to hazard a guess, it is that you have paid the wrong fare on other occasions as well.

If you haven't paid the wrong fare on any other trip, then you don't want to be putting that thought into London Midland's mind.

If you have paid the wrong fare on other journeys, then you are doing the right thing being honest - but there are contributors here who will worry about helping you: as I understand it the ethos of this bulletin board is that no-one should be ripped off by railway companies, but neither should anyone be ripping the companies off by being less than honest.

On another point, you might want to add a sentence to the last paragraph to ask London Midland to suggest how much you should pay.

Taking these points together, you might want to make the last paragraph say something like

"I can only hope that as recompense for my actions, you would provide me the chance to pay for any administrative costs I have put upon London Midland staff, alongside the cost of the original ticket fare. I would be grateful if you could let me know what sum would be acceptable to you to bring this matter to an end."

No, I've never had an incident before this. I originally figured it may have been a good idea to put that instead of emotional/mental cost as it did seem a bit over the top.

With your change in mind on the final paragraph, would you say the letter as a whole seems feasible, or should I perhaps change any other part? Thanks for the feedback, by the way

 

[Antman]

I am amazed on here how many times people lie about the station they have come from and then when questioned they cave in and then admit the truth.

Indeed and the differing attitudes of staff. Four lads get off at Sittingbourne claiming to have come from Newington (the previous station) until it was pointed out to them that the train they had got off hadn't stopped there. Anyway their attempt to avoid paying the correct fare was laughed off and they paid from Rainham (Kent) the last station the train had called at although they had probably travelled from further afield!

 

[Kenconut]

Also, what would be the most suitable way to open and close the letter?

Currently as an opening I've got
"To whom it may concern"

and as a closer
"I hope that you will accept my sincere apologies and wishes to resolve the matter, I hope to hear from you soon."

Beneath the closer, I think writing my signature would be acceptable

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Also, what would be the most suitable way to open and close the letter?

Currently as an opening I've got
"To whom it may concern"

and as a closer
"I hope that you will accept my sincere apologies and wishes to resolve the matter, I hope to hear from you soon."

Beneath the closer, I think writing my signature would be acceptable

I think you now have a letter that you can be happy with - although it might be worth waiting around a bit (maybe until later today) before sending it to see whether anyone else has any comments to make.

As to how to start and end the letter, don't worry too much about this: yours will not be the only letter that is received, and whoever has to deal with it at London Midland will be more interested in the content than whether you have phrased it in the exact way that they like. Personally, if you aren't writing to a named person, then I would suggest that you should start 'Dear Sir or Madam', and sign off 'Yours faithfully', but it's not critical. Given that you have been asked

to respond by completing in full the bottom section of this letter, making any comments about the incident on the reverse, and send it to the above address within seven days.

Just putting your statement and your signature is probably enough

What does matter is making sure that your letter gets to the right person, and that any reply will get back to you. So make sure that

- you send the letter to the right address (if you haven't been sent an envelope, check what is given on the letter they sent you)
- you mention any reference in the letter on the envelope
- your name and address are correct (someone wrote down details when you were first interviewed, and its very easy for things to be written down a little wrong: the Royal Mail managed to deliver this letter to you but if there are mistakes in the name and address you may not be so lucky next time)
- you keep a copy of everything you have been sent, and everything that you have sent (hopefully nothing will get lost. But it's better to have copies of everything and not need them, rather than not have copies and then find you do need them).