London Midland Super Off-Peak returns

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alan71

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Noticed at Crewe last night a poster saying these will be barred from the 16:46 & 17:46 from Euston on Saturday evenings from the timetable change.
They also mention that they're working with NR to run 8 coaches on these services to relieve overcrowding.
 
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Deerfold

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Time restrictions on a Saturday?

I suspect that'll catch a few people out.

Are there any other tickets with time restrictions on a weekend?
 

greatkingrat

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It is not just those two trains. They appear to have just applied the normal weekday super off-peak restrictions to Saturdays as well, so super off-peak tickets will not be valid on trains arriving in Euston before 1300 on Saturdays. The only difference is there is an easement to allow the 1846 from Euston to be used on Saturdays.
 

Be3G

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As for as I can see though they're all a different type of time restriction: they're tickets where they're only valid in the evening (and that's generally hinted at by the name of the ticket type, e.g. ‘evening return’). Less likely to catch someone out compared to a ticket that's generally considered to be an all-day ticket at the weekend suddenly not being usable in the evening. I'd be interested to know if there're any other examples of that specifically.
 

stephy

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i have been waiting for years for bedford to introduce a similar evening-only london return. when pigs fly
 

north

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It is not just those two trains. They appear to have just applied the normal weekday super off-peak restrictions to Saturdays as well, so super off-peak tickets will not be valid on trains arriving in Euston before 1300 on Saturdays. The only difference is there is an easement to allow the 1846 from Euston to be used on Saturdays.


Do you have a restriction text for this? Will this also apply to trains departing Euston (or any station) before 1030 on a Saturday?
 

greatkingrat

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For a Super Off-Peak Return from Crewe to London the restriction code is LF which is

Outward Travel
Mondays to Saturday

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.
Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.
Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction except for travel on the 18:05 service for customers holding tickets from London Euston for stations between Norton Bridge and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive. An easement also applies southwards on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service.
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.
Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Sundays and Bank Holidays
By any London Midland train.
Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Return Travel
Mondays to Saturday

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.
Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.
Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction except for travel on the 18:05 service for customers holding tickets from London Euston for stations between Norton Bridge and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive. An easement also applies southwards on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service.
A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.
Normal break of journey rules apply.

Sundays and Bank Holidays
By any London Midland train.
Normal break of journey rules apply.
 

barrykas

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This change only appears to apply to certain flows, as the text for restrictions LH, LJ and LK hasn't changed in The Manual for NFM15.
 

bb21

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it's certainly changed for Crewe bound services from MKC before 12:19 on Saturday mornings

Milton Keynes Central - Crewe
Route LDN MIDLAND ONLY
Super Off-Peak Return

has changed to Restriction LG.

Restriction LG said:
Outward Travel

Mondays to Saturday

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.

Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction, except on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive.

A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Sundays and Bank Holidays

By any London Midland train.

Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Return Travel

Mondays to Saturday

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.

Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction, except on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive on Saturdays.

A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Normal break of journey rules apply.

Sundays and Bank Holidays

By any London Midland train.

Normal break of journey rules apply.
 

gordonthemoron

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this really buggers up Saturday day trips to Brum from Milton Keynes, may aswell go to London as it's considerably cheaper whereas until tomorrow it's roughly the same price.
 

Greeby

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this really buggers up Saturday day trips to Brum from Milton Keynes, may aswell go to London as it's considerably cheaper whereas until tomorrow it's roughly the same price.

This change only affects the Trent Valley and up to Liverpool. West Midlands area will still be unrestricted on Saturdays.

In the case of MKC - Nuneaton and MKC - Atherstone, we'll just be selling Any Permitted SVS/SVR for most of the day as it will be the cheapest option.
 

north

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I can't get eastcoast.co.uk to show a Saturday train for the Super Off Peak return from St Albans Abbey to Liverpool Stations for Sat 15th June at all aside from the 20:52 arriving at 11:21.

Screenshot attached.

Does anyone have any idea why?
 

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sonic2009

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Something amazes me here.

Why are London Midland only introducing restrictions to stations on the Trent Valley north of Rugby, stating that the 4 car trains used on Crewe to London are overcrowded, yet it will still be overcrowded because people will pay extra.

Are LM trying to profit from a bit more revenue?
 

IanD

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Something amazes me here.

Why are London Midland only introducing restrictions to stations on the Trent Valley north of Rugby, stating that the 4 car trains used on Crewe to London are overcrowded, yet it will still be overcrowded because people will pay extra.

Are LM trying to profit from a bit more revenue?

Is the pope Argentinian?
 

island

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Does anyone have an extract from the manual for restriction LG?

Sorry for the weird formatting, but here you go.

Restriction
Code

LG

Outward Travel

Mondays to Saturday


Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.

Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction, except on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive.

A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Return Travel

Mondays to Saturday


Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to arrive London Terminals before 13:00.

Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to depart London Terminals or any other station, before 10:30.

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to depart the origin station on the ticket between 16:30 and 19:30 in either direction, except on the 19:02 Crewe to Northampton service and on the 18:46 Saturday service from London Euston to stations between Nuneaton and Liverpool Lime Street inclusive on Saturdays.

A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Normal break of journey rules apply.

Outbound Travel

Sundays and Bank Holidays


By any London Midland train.

Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

Return Travel

Sundays and Bank Holidays


By any London Midland train.

Normal break of journey rules apply.
 

Starmill

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this really buggers up Saturday day trips to Brum from Milton Keynes, may aswell go to London as it's considerably cheaper whereas until tomorrow it's roughly the same price.

I concur. I think it buggers up the cheap option for a last-minute trip to London from up here. We need more Great Escapes! :(
 

faddy

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If I select a Super Off-Peak return fare Liverpool to London on the LM website, all weekday return departures from Euston 14:46 to 20:13 inclusive are greyed out as unavailable for that fare. Is that not more restrictive than restriction code LF decrees?

More specifically, why are the 14:46, 15:46 and 20:13 shown as disallowed? I'm guessing that in the first two cases the rule "A connecting service can be used to complete a journey begun at a valid time" isn't being applied to the change at Stafford. But why the 20:13 (change at Crewe onto the 05:40) is disallowed, but the 21:46 (change at Birmingham onto the 06:01) is, I can't fathom.

Also the website doesn't offer the 18:05, greyed out or otherwise, which is an easement in the restriction code.

If I'm correct and the website is incorrect, do the automatic barriers at Euston (and guards) get it right?
 
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bb21

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If I'm correct and the website is incorrect, do the automatic barriers at Euston (and guards) get it right?

I believe that the restrictions have been interpreted incorrectly.
 

causton

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If I'm correct and the website is incorrect, do the automatic barriers at Euston (and guards) get it right?

Once again, barriers do not determine validity. Any Southern Super Off-Peak passenger at Clapham Junction will know, and I had my ticket rejected twice inside the travelcard area for the Super Off-Peak Travelcard I used yesterday!
 

island

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SWT barriers will invariably reject Southern Only and FCC Only tickets. Passengers using Travelcards with those routes while within the zones will be let through the manual gate.
 
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