London NorthWestern Railway Class 350/2 withdrawal

[Class15]

Hi all,

With a handful of the 350/2s looking like they are going off for storage soon, I thought it would be a good idea to track their progress.

Does anyone know when the last 350/2 is likely to operate for LNwR?

Thanks!

 

[bnsf734]

Is there a thread somewhere about 350/2s going to storage as I cant find anything?

Edit. Just found this in the 730 thread on the Allocations page! Posted yesterday 13/10/24 by 800001


350244, 251 and 255 off lease today apparently.

350236 is in Wolverton works having collision repairs, (but should return to service after repairs)

There are a few other recent messages in the 730 thread about 350's, perhaps could do with moving over to keep everything 350 wise in one place?

 

[BucksBones]

Well this is great. 350/2s off without a replacement in sight as 730/2s apparently not expected to enter service any time soon. The Christmas period will be fun with more short formations and cancellations

 

[JonathanH]

Well this is great. 350/2s off without a replacement in sight as 730/2s apparently not expected to enter service any time soon.

Apparently the 350/2s which have been released have been replaced on WMR services in the West Midlands by 730/0s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently the 350/2s which have been released have been replaced on WMR services in the West Midlands by 730/0s.

Though the boards yesterday were full of short-forms in my observation...

 

[Silverlinky]

With the introduction of additional circuits on the Walsall-Wolves and Chase Line today that should have released 350’s from WM use.
350 availability has been poor in general recently but the units going off-lease is not the reason for this.

 

[D365]

@Class15 do you mind clarifying in the thread title that it’s specifically the 350/2s being withdrawn. I got confused before I clicked the thread!

 

[mavml]

350255 has been at Camden all week.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Unfortunately no sign of them being withdrawn here in the North West.

Both the 1G40 Liverpool - Birmingham and the 1U20 Crewe - Euston are 350/2's, so thats three sets! Thank goodness for the declassified first class section.

Putting a 'double' 350/2 on any Crewe - Euston is shameless!

 

[185]

The net balance of trains should not change with the 323s gone, as one 730 arrives, one 350/2 should be ready to return. Been quietly shown at least one set swapped to return to Northampton for "handback work".

Tis a shame, as you'd assume there'd be a deal somewhere for one leasing company to refurb the 350/2s and sell them to the other firm. Fix the simple things like toilets and there's another 20 years left in those sets.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that discussion in this thread should be confined to London NorthWestern Railway Class 350/2 withdrawal. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

I have moved some speculative posts that were discussing LNWR Long Distance rolling stock provision to this thread:

Rolling stock provision for LNWR long distance services

Moderator note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/london-northwestern-railway-class-350-2-withdrawal.275457/ Assuming the seats on the Express 730s are identical to the horrors seen on the local 730 version albeit with arm rests, they really don't belong on long distance work...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[DBS92042]

350238 worked 5J70 Northampton EMD to Wolverton Centre Sidings this morning, reported as now off lease (it currently still holds onto its full ex-London Midland livery it first came into service with back in 2008!)

350236 returned to Northampton EMD on 5J91 after repairs following an incident in June

 

[DarloRich]

The 350/2 shouldn't be going off lease. They need a clean up but should be chugging up and down the southern WCML for many years to come.

 

[172007]

The 350/2 shouldn't be going off lease. They need a clean up but should be chugging up and down the southern WCML for many years to come.

Of course they should go off lease. 37 x 4 car units relaced by 36 x 5 car units, the 350/2 triple seat arrangement is loathed so it probably equates to the same amount of seats available.

730's lease was arranged when interest rates were practically zero so the leasing costs will be far less than the 350/2's.

 

[DarloRich]

Of course they should go off lease. 37 x 4 car units relaced by 36 x 5 car units,

it removes commonality and swaps a very reliable ( until recent months) fleet with a brand new fleet with no entry to service date visible.

the 350/2 triple seat arrangement is loathed so it probably equates to the same amount of seats available.

No it isn't! You may dislike it but that doesn't mean everyone dislikes them. For workings south of MKC/Northampton they are perfectly acceptable

The seats in the new trains are, imo, hardly comfortable either!

730's lease was arranged when interest rates were practically zero so the leasing costs will be far less than the 350/2's.

that is more of an issue - however you have to factor in rebuilding Bletchley deport to accommodate the new trains and all of the associated changes to workings and why a practical lease renegotiation was not successful.

We didn't NEED new trains on WCML south. They did elsewhere in the country. I would have spent the money elsewhere.

 

[Class15]

The 350/2 shouldn't be going off lease. They need a clean up but should be chugging up and down the southern WCML for many years to come.

I agree, it’s frankly a laughable decision. For the 350/2s to be going while 150s continue to operate on GWR and Northern with no sign of withdrawal is ridiculous.

 

[Silverlinky]

Not all the 350/2's are leaving WMT, they will retain a small sub-fleet and these will be refurbished accordingly.

350232 to be stood down this weekend.

 

[DarloRich]

Not all the 350/2's are leaving WMT, they will retain a small sub-fleet and these will be refurbished accordingly.

interesting - thanks - are there any ideas for the utilisation of the rest of the fleet? They are good trains and should find a home.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not all the 350/2's are leaving WMT, they will retain a small sub-fleet and these will be refurbished accordingly.

350232 to be stood down this weekend.

Interesting, that's definitely new. Might I ask how many they're going to keep?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not all the 350/2's are leaving WMT, they will retain a small sub-fleet and these will be refurbished accordingly.

That's significant news. What is the reason for this? Is it to provide extra capacity for things like their proposed Manchester extension of the Crewe service? Has the price been reduced somewhat now the owners know nobody else wants them?

The 3+2 is actually quite popular on the Crewes, families like the bays which are as close to a private car as you get on a UK train, and the narrow seats don't really matter if some of the people in the bay are children. And for those travelling alone you can get to 2+1 occupancy before you actually have to sit next to someone.

 

[Silverlinky]

Initially the delay to the introduction of 730/2's but yes, the prospect of increased services for WMT and the fleet plan rejig if putting 730's onto the Trent Valley.

The only place i've heard the 2's are going is to Long Marston. There is a further 5J70 path tomorrow morning (Kings Heath to Wolverton) and there is also a 5Q30 path from Camden to Kings Heath next Tuesday night for the off lease unit(s) currently stored there to move north.

 

[778]

Initially the delay to the introduction of 730/2's but yes, the prospect of increased services for WMT and the fleet plan rejig if putting 730's onto the Trent Valley.

The only place i've heard the 2's are going is to Long Marston. There is a further 5J70 path tomorrow morning (Kings Heath to Wolverton) and there is also a 5Q30 path from Camden to Kings Heath next Tuesday night for the off lease unit(s) currently stored there to move north.

Maybe the sub-fleet of 350/2s could be used during the peak periods in the same way they used the 319s? They would also be good units for the Abbey line.

It would be a good idea for the remaining 350/2s to be converted to battery trains.

 

[TheGrew]

It's frankly a shame there isn't more electrified track for them to use! As someone who grew up on 450s I would love to see more 350s near where I live near Manchester.
I wonder if there is a case for splitting the units up and inserting carriages into other electric Desiro units. I'm sure the EMR 360s would happily have another coach (platform permitting at St P)

 

[172007]

350/2's with a few remaining may be due to the proposal to run a Manchester Airport service from Birmingham but its highly speculative, can't see the treasury signing it off and off topic for this thread.

 

[DarloRich]

150s continue to operate on GWR and Northern

The operate on LNWR as well. I will be getting one home this evening.......................

 

[Russel]

The 3+2 is actually quite popular on the Crewes, families like the bays which are as close to a private car as you get on a UK train, and the narrow seats don't really matter if some of the people in the bay are children. And for those travelling alone you can get to 2+1 occupancy before you actually have to sit next to someone.

I've seen this posted on here a few times, but as a regular user of the Crewe service, I'm yet to see any widespread, real world proof to back it up.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've seen this posted on here a few times, but as a regular user of the Crewe service, I'm yet to see any widespread, real world proof to back it up.

Exactly! So many sweeping assertions such as "families prefer the 350/2s" ... I'd love to know which families were actually asked or heard saying this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly! So many sweeping assertions such as "families prefer the 350/2s" ... I'd love to know which families were actually asked or heard saying this?

Just anecdotal. On many occasions on the Crewes and Birminghams I've seen families and groups happily occupying the bays. 350/1s have hardly any bays by comparison.

 

[moogal]

Given they need an interior refresh anyway, it's not like they couldn't be reseated to match the other subclasses if they were to be retained.

Personally I'd love to see them retained to allow the Brum-Euston services (which I believe are remaining 350 operated?) to run as 12 cars south of Northampton, as no matter what time of day I use those services they're always very well loaded, and often standing room only for the first couple of stops out of Euston.

 

[Class15]

The operate on LNWR as well. I will be getting one home this evening.......................

Very good point, but the 350/2s were more needing of withdrawal according to LNWR, and so they ordered electric units rather than diesels…