London - Norwich

[Hadders]

I need to travel from London to Norwich next Saturday (19th May), returning the following day. On the way out I need to break my journey at Ipswich to meet up with some friends so I need some flexibility over timings.

I have a zone 1-5 annual travelcard with gold card and am not entitled to any other railcards.

I see the London Terminals-Norwich SVR is £46 which would do the job but see there is a Chadwell Heath-Norwich (not via London) SVR at £41 (Chadwell Heath being the last station in zone 5). Would it be ok to use this ticket in combination with my travelcard on the non-stop train, or are there any other combinations I should be looking for.


Many thanks,
Paul.

 

[jopsuk]

Is your annual travelcard on Oyster? Whilst I'm fairly sure the combination SHOULD be valid, there's potential for the hassle you get not being worth the £5 saving! One less beer in central London...

 

[yorkie]

Yes, your Season ticket can be combined with any number of non-Season tickets for one journey with no requirement to call at any station, so it's valid.

Is your annual travelcard on Oyster? Whilst I'm fairly sure the combination SHOULD be valid, there's potential for the hassle you get not being worth the £5 saving! One less beer in central London...

On the contrary, I'd be very interested to hear if Greater Anglia are giving hassle to Travelcard holders just because their Travelcard is held on Oyster. I'm sure several people too would be happy to chase that up.

 

[Hadders]

The Travelcard is on Oyster. Never had an issue before although not used it on GA to be fair. Presumably GA will be more aware of Oyster than, say, EMT, East Coast or Virgin as they operate inner suburban services as well as long distance ones.

I am more concerned about using a not via London ticket as part of the combination - I assume this is perfectly ok.

 

[MikeWh]

I am more concerned about using a not via London ticket as part of the combination - I assume this is perfectly ok.

Absolutely. Your travelcard takes you to Chadwell Heath and the return ticket takes care of the rest. I presume that sometimes it can be quicker to go via London from Chadwell Heath and that there is a higher fare to allow that double back, or that the ticket is just making it clear that you can't do that.

 

[RJ]

The Travelcard is on Oyster. Never had an issue before although not used it on GA to be fair. Presumably GA will be more aware of Oyster than, say, EMT, East Coast or Virgin as they operate inner suburban services as well as long distance ones.

I am more concerned about using a not via London ticket as part of the combination - I assume this is perfectly ok.

Hi,

The wording of the condition which allows you to use two tickets for one journey stipulates that the entire journey must be covered. A Chadwell Heath to Norwich ticket routed Not Via London covers the remainder of the journey between Zone 5 and Norwich. Therefore, the condition has been met.

If you'd like to have a look at the Condition for peace of mind, it can be found in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. Condition 19.c is the applicable clause in this case.

Good luck

 

[Hadders]

I see there is a Cheshunt-Norwich route Not Via London SVR at £33.70. This appears to be valid via maps OV+EA. Could this be used on this journey - I'm not 100% sure what London means in this example.

 

[RJ]

I see there is a Cheshunt-Norwich route Not Via London SVR at £33.70. This appears to be valid via maps OV+EA. Could this be used on this journey - I'm not 100% sure what London means in this example.

Hi,

That wouldn't be valid, I'm afraid. It would be valid if the fare from Tottenham Hale to Norwich routed Not Via London was cheaper than or the same price as Cheshunt to Norwich routed Not Via London. However, it is not, so that ticket is only valid to travel north from Cheshunt, via Stansted Mountfitchet.

The only maps you can use for that ticket are either CN, or EA. The routing points you'd be travelling between would be Stansted (Group) and Norwich.

For future reference, London under the "Route" part of a ticket means any station in the London Routing Group. This can be found on Page 3 of this Group Stations document which is part of the National Routeing Guide.

 

[SickyNicky]

Yes - this is one of those unusual situations where there are two possible routeing points but their validity differs according to ticket route.

On a +ANY PERMITTED ticket, the appropriate routeing point is Tottenham Hale. Stansted fails the fare check and is not allowed (except by the shortest route rules).

On a NOT VIA LONDON ticket, Stansted is the appropriate routeing point and Tottenham Hale fails the fares check.

 

[John @ home]

For future reference, London under the "Route" part of a ticket means any station in the London Routing Group. This can be found on Page 3 of this Group Stations document which is part of the National Routeing Guide.

Unfortunately the Group Stations link of the National Routeing Guide home page directs to the Easements list rather than the list of Group Stations, as it has done since at least 3 April 29 March 2012.

I will report the error to ATOC yet again today.

Meanwhile, the real list of Group Stations is attached.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for your help! On the subject of the Group Stations link I reported this on 29 March! The reply asked me to report it to the Fujitsu helpdesk!

 

[John @ home]

On the subject of the Group Stations link I reported this on 29 March!

Thanks. I have amended post #10.

 

[OwlMan]

ATOC hve updated the link now