London Paddington Elizabeth Line gateline ticket barriers.

[stadler]

Why do the Elizabeth Line ticket barriers at London Paddington always reject Travelcard tickets? I was just wondering if anyone knows if this is a mistake or if it is done intentionally for some reason? I buy Travelcard tickets regularly from a variety of SWR managed stations snd SN managed stations in Surrey and Sussex and every time i use these barriers they reject it and you have to get staff to open it. It has been doing it for me probably like over fourty times now since the station opened two years ago. It happens every single time i use this gateline. Was just curious if anyone knew anything about why the barriers are set to reject Travelcard tickets.

 

[Bungle965]

Why do the Elizabeth Line ticket barriers at London Paddington always reject Travelcard tickets? I was just wondering if anyone knows if this is a mistake or if it is done intentionally for some reason? I buy Travelcard tickets regularly from a variety of SWR managed stations snd SN managed stations in Surrey and Sussex and every time i use these barriers they reject it and you have to get staff to open it. It has been doing it for me probably like over fourty times now since the station opened two years ago. It happens every single time i use this gateline. Was just curious if anyone knew anything about why the barriers are set to reject Travelcard tickets.

Do you recall the rejection code given by the gate?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

You need to look for the 2 digit code that appears on the small gateline LCD screen, but if it is happening regularly, it could be an indication that your ticket is discounted in some way, for example, with a Railcard.

It is also possible that "pass back" times are in play, are you making a quick transfer from one gateline to another, i.e. just a few minutes?

Gatelines for magnetic tickets are very broad rule based, and you do not have the granularity available to cater for everyone - so you set rules based on what largely works for the most frequent demographic using that location.

 

[stadler]

Do you recall the rejection code given by the gate?

To be honest i have never paid attention to the rejection code. I never think to look at that. Now you mention it i ought to have a look as that may provide answers. I will probably be using this gateline again at the end of the week so i will make sure to check the code then.

You need to look for the 2 digit code that appears on the small gateline LCD screen, but if it is happening regularly, it could be an indication that your ticket is discounted in some way, for example, with a Railcard.

It is also possible that "pass back" times are in play, are you making a quick transfer from one gateline to another, i.e. just a few minutes?

Gatelines for magnetic tickets are very broad rule based, and you do not have the granularity available to cater for everyone - so you set rules based on what largely works for the most frequent demographic using that location.

I will check the code when i use it next probably later this week. My ticket is not discounted and i use a full price ordinary adult ticket. I often use a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard but no railcard discounts or anything like that and i always travel at times when it is valid. It even happens after i alight after a fairly long journey so it can not be a passback issue either.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Why do the Elizabeth Line ticket barriers at London Paddington always reject Travelcard tickets? I was just wondering if anyone knows if this is a mistake or if it is done intentionally for some reason? I buy Travelcard tickets regularly from a variety of SWR managed stations snd SN managed stations in Surrey and Sussex and every time i use these barriers they reject it and you have to get staff to open it. It has been doing it for me probably like over fourty times now since the station opened two years ago. It happens every single time i use this gateline. Was just curious if anyone knew anything about why the barriers are set to reject Travelcard tickets.

In addition to the reject code query, is this on magstripe or Smartcard?

 

[stadler]

In addition to the reject code query, is this on magstripe or Smartcard?

It is always just a normal CCST magstripe ticket printed on 9599 stock that i have.

 

[redreni]

I use Network Railcard-discounted day travelcards fairly regularly and haven't had issues at that gateline. So it's not programmed to reject Railcard-discounted tickets at the times I use it, at least.

If it's working at other gatelines but not at Paddington EL then I'm stumped.

Friction at gatelines (both LU and NR) when using paper Travelcards, and indeed CCSTs generally, is quite high. Perhaps the proportion of passengers using them is now low enough to make this level of friction acceptable from an operational (if not a passenger experience) point of view?

 

[island]

I have issues with off peak day Travelcards at some EL stations on code 107 (TOC ticket not valid at this time) which I have isolated to between 1600-1900, suggesting someone programmed them (incorrectly) to reject the ticket at those times.

 

[sprunt]

It is also possible that "pass back" times are in play, are you making a quick transfer from one gateline to another, i.e. just a few minutes?

How would exiting one gateline and entering another a few minutes later indicate a pass back? It's exactly how I'd expect a paper travelcard to be used at a major interchange station.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I have issues with off peak day Travelcards at some EL stations on code 107 (TOC ticket not valid at this time) which I have isolated to between 1600-1900, suggesting someone programmed them (incorrectly) to reject the ticket at those times.

Sadly not unexpected, given the code gates use to identify Off-Peak Day Returns and Off-Peak Day Travelcards issued on magstripe is the same. It'd be interesting to know if you had a similar experience with one issued on a Smartcard.

 

[island]

Sadly not unexpected, given the code gates use to identify Off-Peak Day Returns and Off-Peak Day Travelcards issued on magstripe is the same.

Is it? I thought the coding was the first two letters of the 3-letter ticket abbreviation, which would be CD for an off-peak day return and OD for an off-peak day Travelcard.

It'd be interesting to know if you had a similar experience with one issued on a Smartcard.

I only use paper day Travelcards with Two Together Railcard discount, which are unable to be issued to smartcards, so that particular mystery will remain unsolved for now.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is it? I thought the coding was the first two letters of the 3-letter ticket abbreviation, which would be CD for an off-peak day return and OD for an off-peak day Travelcard.

For magstripe it's what used to be known as the CAPRI code, which is BD for both.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

How would exiting one gateline and entering another a few minutes later indicate a pass back? It's exactly how I'd expect a paper travelcard to be used at a major interchange station.

If the Paddington EL gates use the same NLC as the Paddington NR gates - for example - 3087 LONDON PADDINGTON.

It's only an issue if the NLCs are the same, as for all intents and purposes, it's the "same" gateline on the magstripe.

 

[MrJeeves]

Typically the issues I have with Travelcards within London Zones is when I'm using Super Off-peak Travelcards as opposed to Anytime/Off-peak.

 

[sprunt]

If the Paddington EL gates use the same NLC as the Paddington NR gates - for example - 3087 LONDON PADDINGTON.

It's only an issue if the NLCs are the same, as for all intents and purposes, it's the "same" gateline on the magstripe.

And they can't distinguish between an entry and an exit? That doesn't seem massively fit for purpose, especially as when the system was defined there would have been many more paper travelcards in use than now.

 

[MrJeeves]

If the Paddington EL gates use the same NLC as the Paddington NR gates - for example - 3087 LONDON PADDINGTON.

It's only an issue if the NLCs are the same, as for all intents and purposes, it's the "same" gateline on the magstripe.

For Cubic, passback prevention is performed at a gateline control unit level. It doesn't use the last gateline data written to the magstripe of the CCST.

If the gatelines are all interconnected (e.g., to a station control unit in a control room) then it would work across separate gatelines, but that's not the case between Paddington EL and mainline for obvious reasons.

 

[Hadders]

Typically the issues I have with Travelcards within London Zones is when I'm using Super Off-peak Travelcards as opposed to Anytime/Off-peak.

This.

I often have issues with Stevenage to London Zones 1-6 Super Off-Peak Travelcards (ticket code WRE). The stopped working at Liverpool Street when TfL Rail took over services formerly operated by greater Anglia. Similarly, happened at Paddngton when TfL Rail took over local services.

I don't believe it's corrupted magstripes, simply that the gatelines are not correctly set up.

 

[Simon75]

I've had issues at Euston Square and Liverpool Street Underground , rejecting paper train tickets from the the North to Essex

 

[125Spotter]

I also regularly encounter this issue. I just got rejection code 126 at Paddington using a CCST - not a travelcard but an Advance routed to "London Underground Zone 1"

 

[Horizon22]

I also regularly encounter this issue. I just got rejection code 126 at Paddington using a CCST - not a travelcard but an Advance routed to "London Underground Zone 1"

Railway station barrier error codes

A list of UK railway station ticket barrier error codes

www.railwaycodes.org.uk

126

XX OOOO

TOC ticket origin is not valid for entry here

 

[D1024]

I also always get ticket rejected at Paddington Elizabeth Line gates when travelling with a paper Travelcard - discounted with Senior Railcard. Digressing a bit but a couple of weeks ago I used a Woking to Zones 1-6 Sunday Out Travelcard (discounted) to travel from Woking to Hayes (Kent) with a meander round Central London en-route. The Travelcard was rejected at Charing Cross, London Bridge and Waterloo East, everytime with the code 122 - LUL Ticket Is Not Valid - Bizarre! (Edited to clarify - Those were all Mainline (SE) Stations not LUL)

 

[MikeWM]

I also always get ticket rejected at Paddington Elizabeth Line gates when travelling with a paper Travelcard - discounted with Senior Railcard.

As do I, in my case discounted with a Gold Card. It's remarkably tedious and no other Elizabeth Line gateline appears to have the same issue.

I've pointed this out to the gateline staff a number of times over the last couple of years, but I don't imagine that actually gets fed back to anyone.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I would hazard a guess the problem is with the "odd" Travelcard types that SWR use, since they have different CAPRI codes from the standard ODT (Off-Peak Day Travelcard) ticket type, where the code is BDY as CyrusWuff mentioned above.

• Sunday Out Travelcard is ticket type SUT, CAPRI code HYT
• Evening Out Travelcard is ticket type EVT, CAPRI code BHA

Probably the barriers at stations that do not see a lot of these tickets simply have not been programmed to accept HY and BH as well as BD.

Edit: I should probably enhance BR Fares to show the CAPRI code as well as the ticket type code

 

[Haywain]

I would hazard a guess the problem is with the "odd" Travelcard types that SWR use, since they have different CAPRI codes from the standard ODT (Off-Peak Day Travelcard) ticket type, where the code is BDY as CyrusWuff mentioned above.

• Sunday Out Travelcard is ticket type SUT, CAPRI code HYT
• Evening Out Travelcard is ticket type EVT, CAPRI code BHA

Probably the barriers at stations that do not see a lot of these tickets simply have not been programmed to accept HY and BH as well as BD.

Edit: I should probably enhance BR Fares to show the CAPRI code as well as the ticket type code

I would just mention that on CCST tickets, and therefore in gate logic, only the first two characters of the CAPRI code are used. The magnetic stripe doesn't have space for three characters.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I would hazard a guess the problem is with the "odd" Travelcard types that SWR use, since they have different CAPRI codes from the standard ODT (Off-Peak Day Travelcard) ticket type, where the code is BDY as CyrusWuff mentioned above.

• Sunday Out Travelcard is ticket type SUT, CAPRI code HYT
• Evening Out Travelcard is ticket type EVT, CAPRI code BHA

Probably the barriers at stations that do not see a lot of these tickets simply have not been programmed to accept HY and BH as well as BD.

Edit: I should probably enhance BR Fares to show the CAPRI code as well as the ticket type code

That would be handy

 

[Paul Kelly]

I should probably enhance BR Fares to show the CAPRI code as well as the ticket type code

Done.

 

[talldave]

As do I, in my case discounted with a Gold Card. It's remarkably tedious and no other Elizabeth Line gateline appears to have the same issue.

I've pointed this out to the gateline staff a number of times over the last couple of years, but I don't imagine that actually gets fed back to anyone.

How does one get real world problems converted into actions and resolutions?

It's probably a simple fix, but if it takes 5 years be initiated it's somewhat irritating for paying customers who, understandably, assume nobody cares.