London <-> Paris <-> Vienna

[ficedula]

I'm currently planning a family holiday to Vienna next year, and I'd like to avoid flying if possible. It looks like it's actually reasonable to do the whole trip by train - first get to London, then Eurostar to Paris, then Nightjet sleeper to Vienna. Total journey time is quite long, but the sleeper part is kind of free on time given you're asleep for most of it, and it's not like we live that near an airport either so it's much quicker for us to get to St Pancras than to any airport.

The questions are:

1) I believe if I buy CIV tickets for the UK part of the journey, I'm protected against delays causing me to miss my Eurostar connection, i.e. if my UK train into London is delayed and I miss my booked Eurostar, they should put me on another Eurostar at no extra cost - is that correct?

2) Is there any equivalent for the Eurostar <-> Nightjet part of the journey? (I realise on the outward journey, if I miss the Nightjet leaving Paris there's not exactly another one leaving an hour later they can put me on! But on the return journey, transferring from Nightjet -> Eurostar it's more relevant - and even on the outward journey, "the rail staff will sort you out with a hotel for the night and tickets for a train the next day" would be convenient, although you'd lose a day either way, of course.)

2a) If yes, how? Does it involve buying all the tickets as "one journey" from a single source or something?

2b) If no, is the answer "leave plenty of time to change in Paris, and if you end up delayed by 4+ hrs and miss your connection anyway, just make sure you have good travel insurance to cover you against the inevitable hassle and costs"? And if so, does anybody know what the key wording/conditions/magic terms are to look for on the travel insurance?!

2c) Or is the answer "no, leave plenty of time to change in Paris and if it all goes wrong, eat the cost and hassle, that's just how it is"?

 

[signed]

I believe if I buy CIV tickets for the UK part of the journey, I'm protected against delays causing me to miss my Eurostar connection, i.e. if my UK train into London is delayed and I miss my booked Eurostar, they should put me on another Eurostar at no extra cost - is that correct?

Correct, as long as you give more than enough time to connect + the 60min for check-in

If yes, how? Does it involve buying all the tickets as "one journey" from a single source or something?

If you can, that's better, but that will not afford you greater protections.

If no, is the answer "leave plenty of time to change in Paris, and if you end up delayed by 4+ hrs and miss your connection anyway, just make sure you have good travel insurance to cover you against the inevitable hassle and costs"?

The Agreement on Journey Continuation (of which both Eurostar and ÖBB are signatories) would rebook you on the next, but it doesn't cover any additional costs.

For the outward, as the next if a few days later that is not really an option

It is however your best bet on the return leg.

Agreement on Journey Continuation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The passenger who, due to a delay or cancellation of the preceding train, misses a train on which he has a seat reservation, is allowed on the next possible train without additional costs under these conditions:[1][2][3][4]

• It is an international train journey.
• The operators of the connecting trains have both signed the agreement.
• The passenger must have foreseen a reasonable connecting time between the trains (minimal the proposed time of the official journey planners)
• The passenger must present a confirmation of this delay, that he received from the delayed operator.
• Onward travel has to be on the same operator and the same route as on the ticket
• The AJC is not an automatic passenger right. At the interchange station, the passenger should ask permission from the station staff or from the train manager of the onward train.
• The agreement does not cover assistance or compensation due to the delay or cancellation. Each operator are however obliged to pay certain compensation for trains delayed over one hour based on EU rules.

Or is the answer "no, leave plenty of time to change in Paris and if it all goes wrong, eat the cost and hassle, that's just how it is"?

This is probably your best bet on the outward leg, you can arrive early morning or by noon, and have a comfortable sightseeing/meal time in Paris

 

[JGurney]

I'm currently planning a family holiday to Vienna next year, and I'd like to avoid flying if possible. It looks like it's actually reasonable to do the whole trip by train - first get to London, then Eurostar to Paris, then Nightjet sleeper to Vienna. Total journey time is quite long, but the sleeper part is kind of free on time given you're asleep for most of it, and it's not like we live that near an airport either so it's much quicker for us to get to St Pancras than to any airport.

The questions are:

1) I believe if I buy CIV tickets for the UK part of the journey, I'm protected against delays causing me to miss my Eurostar connection, i.e. if my UK train into London is delayed and I miss my booked Eurostar, they should put me on another Eurostar at no extra cost - is that correct?

2) Is there any equivalent for the Eurostar <-> Nightjet part of the journey? (I realise on the outward journey, if I miss the Nightjet leaving Paris there's not exactly another one leaving an hour later they can put me on! But on the return journey, transferring from Nightjet -> Eurostar it's more relevant - and even on the outward journey, "the rail staff will sort you out with a hotel for the night and tickets for a train the next day" would be convenient, although you'd lose a day either way, of course.)

2a) If yes, how? Does it involve buying all the tickets as "one journey" from a single source or something?

2b) If no, is the answer "leave plenty of time to change in Paris, and if you end up delayed by 4+ hrs and miss your connection anyway, just make sure you have good travel insurance to cover you against the inevitable hassle and costs"? And if so, does anybody know what the key wording/conditions/magic terms are to look for on the travel insurance?!

2c) Or is the answer "no, leave plenty of time to change in Paris and if it all goes wrong, eat the cost and hassle, that's just how it is"?

Why do you plan to go via Paris rather than Brussels, which is more direct? It also avoids transferring between stations.

On the one occasion that we were seriously delayed on a train into Paris (from Salzburg via Stuttgart), Eurostar were helpful and on being 'phoned from the delayed train gave me a reference number to quote at check-in and confirmed that we could board a later train.

 

[nwales58]

Suggestion: look at costs of Nightjet before deciding.

You may find it cheaper to travel on day 1 London-Brussels-e.g. Frankfurt, day 2 Frankfurt-Vienna which is a through ICE (or should be again by next year). Plenty of hotels around Frankfurt Hbf (Intercity, Ibis, independents,Premier Inn) unless there is an event on.

If a return trip compare the likely costs of Eurostar+Sparpreis/Sparschiene with a 4 day Interrail.

 

[Alfonso]

Nightjet pricing seems to have got a lot more variable and in general more expensive. The most obvious route is from Brussels as mentioned above but you could also pick one up in cologne. If you wanted to add destinations you could take the Zurich to Vienna nightjet (or the hungarian portion, which can be cheaper albeit with a rather early arrival in vienna) or even the domestic one from western Austria. You can often also do vienna to London but not London to Vienna in a long day.

 

[StephenHunter]

The good thing about Paris is that Nord and Est are very close together - a ten-minute walk or one stop on the RER.

 

[peteb]

Nightjet pricing seems to have got a lot more variable and in general more expensive. The most obvious route is from Brussels as mentioned above but you could also pick one up in cologne. If you wanted to add destinations you could take the Zurich to Vienna nightjet (or the hungarian portion, which can be cheaper albeit with a rather early arrival in vienna) or even the domestic one from western Austria. You can often also do vienna to London but not London to Vienna in a long day.

London to Vienna is possible in a day eg: tomorrow 28/10/2024 dep St Pancras 0704 via changes at Brussels, Frankfurt and St Poelten, arrives Vienna 2307. This is 2 hrs after the rather optimistic 14 min connect at Brussels suggested by the inter-rail planner! A long day but could save a fortune on hotels/sleeper for a family.

 

[williamn]

I did it in a day last year, during the day, changing at Brussels and Frankfurt. Very enjoyable both ways, and despite the usual DB delays I made all my connections.

 

[ficedula]

Thanks for the advice all. We're keen to take the sleeper because spending a full 17 hour day travelling just to get there and immediately have to travel to a hotel and then go to sleep isn't especially appealing; we'd much rather spend a bit longer travelling but spend 8-9 hours of it asleep and arrive in Vienna the next morning, even if the sleeper costs more than a hotel for the night.

Sounds like the general idea is (a) get CIV tickets, and (b) allow plenty of the time for the outward change, but (c) we're covered by The Agreement on Journey Continuation regardless, which is more useful on the way back.

Considering a change at Brussels now - we kind of got fixated on Paris once we found there was a sleeper from Paris -> Vienna and never even considered checking other Eurostar stations!

 

[bspahh]

Thanks for the advice all. We're keen to take the sleeper because spending a full 17 hour day travelling just to get there and immediately have to travel to a hotel and then go to sleep isn't especially appealing; we'd much rather spend a bit longer travelling but spend 8-9 hours of it asleep and arrive in Vienna the next morning, even if the sleeper costs more than a hotel for the night.

Sounds like the general idea is (a) get CIV tickets, and (b) allow plenty of the time for the outward change, but (c) we're covered by The Agreement on Journey Continuation regardless, which is more useful on the way back.

Considering a change at Brussels now - we kind of got fixated on Paris once we found there was a sleeper from Paris -> Vienna and never even considered checking other Eurostar stations!

Seat 61 has 7 routes for London to Vienna

London to Vienna & Austria by train | Times, fares, how to buy tickets

Train times, fares & tickets from London to Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Linz, Graz, Klagenfurt & Austria. UK to Austria without flying!

www.seat61.com

You could also go London to Prague. Its then 4 hours from Prague to Vienna

London to Prague by train | Times, fares, how to buy tickets

Train times, fares & how to buy tickets from London to Prague & Czechia by Eurostar and onward train. UK to Prague without flying!

www.seat61.com

 

[BahrainLad]

Depending on where you are coming from in the UK it might be an idea to get an early Eurostar and then have a day in Brussels/Paris before the evening Sleeper. I did this with my daughter a couple of years ago, we arrived around 1130, left the luggage at Midi, went and had lunch, then the Natural History Museum (surprisingly good), then the light show in the Grand Place (it was in early December) and a visit to a Carrefour before heading back to the station for the 1930ish departure. Brussels is not the world's most exciting city but it has its charms and you could certainly kill half a day with ease.

 

[30907]

Rather than getting individual CIV tickets, check out Interrail, particularly if the children are young enough to go free. A 4-day ticket will give you a free day if you use the sleeper (home-London-Eurostar-sleeper is one day).

The sleeper is on the same night from Brussels and Paris, and is supposed to go every day from next year but so far....

I would be tempted to do sleeper out and day trains home if time permits - plenty of options for stopovers.

 

[endecotp]

spend 8-9 hours of it asleep

That sounds optimistic; have you ever used a sleeper before?

There may be some who can naturally get a solid night's sleep on a sleeper but I think they will be a minority. Others will get to sleep with the help of booze or pills. Many won't get much sleep at all.

Even if you're lucky there is still the danger of being awoken for checks at frontiers, unfortunately.

 

[JGurney]

Considering a change at Brussels now - we kind of got fixated on Paris once we found there was a sleeper from Paris -> Vienna and never even considered checking other Eurostar stations!

It is the most direct route, and the E* and Nightjet use the same Brussels station (Sud/Midi). While it is usually punctual we have occasionally known the Brussels Nightjet to arrive up to an hour late into Brussels, so I suggest allowing some slack in the E* booking for the return journey.

My wife and I have made several London - Vienna journeys and have either gone that way or by the slower but enjoyable route via Amsterdam. (The Amsterdam route involves the overnight ferry from Harwich or Newcastle, putting the bags in left luggage for the day and looking round Amsterdam, then the Amsterdam -Vienna sleeper).

 

[30907]

Even if you're lucky there is still the danger of being awoken for checks at frontiers, unfortunately.

...though only Westbound

As well as delays once you are on-board, which sleepers are prone to, you need to be aware that relatively short-notice changes for engineering work can mean an earlier departure from Brussels or cancellation between Paris and Strasbourg

 

[Gordon]

I agree with the comments about sleepers. They save time but little else. If you have the time, why sleep across central Europe when you can do it by day and see the scenery?

You can use the 'original and best'* German railway journey planner ( * online railway planners were invented by students at Karlsruhe University) Bahn.de

just go to

Cheap Train Tickets | Timetables for Germany & Europe - Deutsche Bahn

Deutsche Bahn: int.bahn.de - Your mobility portal for travelling by rail. Information, train tickets, online tickets, regional day tickets, low-cost offers for holidays and travel.

int.bahn.de

and input 'from' your own station in the UK and 'to' Wien

I just did this as a test and it recognised that there are no trains on my local line in London at the moment due to a week long signalling closure , so I moved the date into November and got several options

 

[30907]

I agree with the comments about sleepers. They save time but little else. If you have the time, why sleep across central Europe when you can do it by day and see the scenery?

Though if you stick on the direct routes, I would class them as interesting rather than spectacular scenically until you get to the Alps (Brussels-Vienna does the Rhine Gorge after dark, but the ICEs mostly don't.)

 

[Austriantrain]

Though if you stick on the direct routes, I would class them as interesting rather than spectacular scenically until you get to the Alps

... which (i.e. getting to the Alps) you don't really do on the logical route via Brussels and Frankfurt. Some glimpses from a distance is all you get, and mostly not because of noise barriers and tunnels.