London prototypes and trial vehicles

[PG]

That was the ORIGINAL Enviro 200, designed to be like a continental bus with a vertical engine, flat floor and a door at the back

As nobody bought it, they introduced alongside it an improved Dart, the Enviro200 Dart, which is the Enviro 200 we know today (they then dropped the Dart name)

Was the poor seating capacity the reason nobody bought it? 27 seats in what looks like an 11m bus, or maybe it cost more than a low floor Dart?

 

[Strathclyder]

Re V3, I knew it had two sets of doors as well as two staircases from new and also now in preservation. D'oh to me for not mentioning it in my original comment lol

Another demostrator that briefly saw London service was the unique Alexander PS-bodied Iveco TurboCity 50/Fiat 480-12-21 (K891 XGS) with Selkent
(linked image below part of the Stephen Day Flickr collection).

K891XGS Iveco Turbo City 50 on hire to Selkent. Lewisham Way 1.7.93

www.flickr.com

Another bus that spent a brief period in London on demo/trial duties in the early 90s was a tri-axle, fully air-conditioned Alexander R Type-bodied Leyland Olympian coach demo (J248 WWK/331; new to VL Bus of Warwick in July 1992) that briefly served with Capital Citybus, but was intended for Citybus of Hong Kong. It would leave for HK in August 1992 gaining the FK 5095 registration in the process (photo from the Stuart Dobie Flickr collection).

Capital Citybus 331

The last trip done in the UK before Leyland took it to Hong Kong. Boo!

www.flickr.com

Video of 331 in London service (from the citytransportinfo YouTube channel), starting at 8:32:

 

[delt1c]

Fair to say that V3 had a chequered history, from reading that. (Off-topic, is it really nearly 16 years since Black Prince closed? Gulp!)

I wonder if the eventual outcome of that experiment was ever regarded as successful? I suppose it was successful in developing a buoyant secondhand export market...

Now, one prototype that I‘ve been trying to hunt down, though the Flickr search algorithms aren’t playing ball, was an Enviro 200 with what would normally be the centre exit plug-doors fitted at the nearside rear, aft of the rear axle. I believe it was one of the early experimental hybrid chassis. I can remember seeing a photo of it on a trade show stand somewhere, with some commentary that Go Ahead London were expected to take delivery. Could anyone shed any more light on this?

Saw a single decker of this layout at Angel in the early 2000's, it was operating an HT route ( cant remember the number). What caught my attention at the time was a single decker with a door at the rear

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Deleted, point already covered

 

[galwhv69]

Was the poor seating capacity the reason nobody bought it? 27 seats in what looks like an 11m bus, or maybe it cost more than a low floor Dart?

Believe the main reason was that TfL didn't want any buses with rear doors opening like that, though seating capacity was probably also a factor as TfL specify between X & Y seats for each bus length
(Document attached here, page 44 of PDF, which states page 37 in corner of page)

 

[MotCO]

Believe the main reason was that TfL didn't want any buses with rear doors opening like that, though seating capacity was probably also a factor as TfL specify between X & Y seats for each bus length
(Document attached here, page 44 of PDF, which states page 37 in corner of page)

The other problem was that the rear doors were plug doors, and when opened, extended beyond the back of the bus. Thus any bus stopped close behind would have been hit .

 

[Mikey C]

The other problem was that the rear doors were plug doors, and when opened, extended beyond the back of the bus. Thus any bus stopped close behind would have been hit .

They could have installed a different type of door, like the Borismasters had originally for their back door, which folds inwards

Ultimately though a high capacity midibus wasn't something that London needed, and outside of London, nearly all buses have just 1 door anyway

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Was the poor seating capacity the reason nobody bought it? 27 seats in what looks like an 11m bus, or maybe it cost more than a low floor Dart?

They could have installed a different type of door, like the Borismasters had originally for their back door, which folds inwards

Ultimately though a high capacity midibus wasn't something that London needed, and outside of London, nearly all buses have just 1 door anyway

27 seats does seem a bit skimpy in a bus of that length, I wonder if the layout was optimised for standee capacity (though that’s been tried in London before...).

I’m also wondering if drivers representatives raised concerns about the rear doors. Looking at the picture of the 274 at Marble Arch it struck me that the nearside mirror was at an odd angle, at least from this former driver’s perspective. It then crossed my mind that it had to be positioned in this way so the driver could get visual supervision of the doors, which doesn’t seem ideal. If there were no external/internal monitoring cameras feeding a screen in the cab that does look like a shortcoming.

 

[MotCO]

If there were no external/internal monitoring cameras feeding a screen in the cab that does look like a shortcoming.

A tv camera would fix that now.

 

[matt_world2004]

Tri axle 1 was a experiment bus. It was on route 12.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

A tv camera would fix that now.

Yes, that would be my preferred option. The more I thought about it, the more I didn’t like the idea of trying to monitor doors that were ±10 metres away via a mirror, especially in wet weather in the dark.

 

[galwhv69]

Tri axle 1 was a experiment bus. It was on route 12.

I was under the impression that it's coming back into service, no?

 

[matt_world2004]

I was under the impression that it's coming back into service, no?

I'm not sure it was paid for by tfl and they may not have enough money to buy a fleet of them

 

[MotCO]

I'm not sure it was paid for by tfl and they may not have enough money to buy a fleet of them

Wasn't it one of those Ensignbus commissioned from BCI in China? If so, it may well have been owned by Ensignbus as a demonstrator.

 

[galwhv69]

I'm not sure it was paid for by tfl and they may not have enough money to buy a fleet of them

I'm not talking about an entire batch coming into service, I meant TA1 itself

 

[matt_world2004]

I'm not talking about an entire batch coming into service, I meant TA1 itself

Yes so what do you describe a single bus being used on a route to see if it is compatible it is surely s prototype in that context .