London Terminals misinformation ?

[ngood77]

Hi,

We all know that planners don’t state LT as departure or destination stations, but the actual tickets do state LT.

I have an Advance Single from Tonbridge to LT, the only restriction on it is SA, and that I have to board the 08.25 train. An SE rep is trying to tell me that I can only use the ticket to alight at LB or LCS, and not for example onwards to CHX. I don’t think they are correct but I’d appreciate your confirmation. Thanks.

 

[redreni]

Since break of journey isn't allowed, I wouldn't think you even have a choice between London Bridge or Cannon St. I'd have thought you have to stick to your itinerary as booked.

 

[Benjwri]

The rep is correct. Your ticket is only valid on the train you have booked, irrespective of the destination on the ticket. There are not & connections destinations on that flow, so that doesn’t even come into it.

You must stick to your reservation. Contractually you can’t even leave at London Bridge if your reservation is to Cannon Street, however industry arrangements mean it would probably be permitted in reality.

Travelling to Charring Cross would be totally out of the validity of your ticket.

 

[ngood77]

Ok I’m surprised at that. Thankfully this doesn’t affect me as my return leg is not an Advance.

The ticket shouldn’t have LT as the destination if I must alight at a particular station. Thanks.

 

[Watershed]

Ok I’m surprised at that. Thankfully this doesn’t affect me as my return leg is not an Advance.

The ticket shouldn’t have LT as the destination if I must alight at a particular station. Thanks.

The ticket destination being wider (London Terminals vs London Bridge for example) means that in the event of disruption, you have more flexibility. It isn't a bad thing in any sense! You just have to follow the simple golden rule for Advance tickets - travel on your booked itinerary.

 

[Haywain]

The ticket shouldn’t have LT as the destination if I must alight at a particular station. Thanks.

You bought a ticket to a particular station regardless of what it says on the ticket. If you want to go somewhere else then buy a ticket to somewhere else, and if you want flexibility, buy a flexible ticket.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You bought a ticket to a particular station regardless of what it says on the ticket. If you want to go somewhere else then buy a ticket to somewhere else, and if you want flexibility, buy a flexible ticket.

Indeed. Quite a few folk seem only willing to pay the very cheapest possible price for a (booked train only) advance ticket, but then act all surprised when it doesn't quite have the flexibility of a more expensive ticket type.

 

[jamiearmley]

Indeed. Quite a few folk seem only willing to pay the very cheapest possible price for a (booked train only) advance ticket, but then act all surprised when it doesn't quite have the flexibility of a more expensive ticket type.

Absolutely this.

Only today someone tore up their ccst ticket and threw it in my face after I pointed out this to them.

 

[Somewhere]

It took me reading several posts to realise that the OP meant London Terminals by LT, and not London Transport. I wondered how anyone can realise the ticket is valid to a specific station when it said U1!

 

[ngood77]

In case it helps anybody I had no issue passing through at London Cannon St despite the itin.

 

[Benjwri]

In case it helps anybody I had no issue passing through at London Cannon St despite the itin.

I would say in this case you’ve been lucky. I doubt if there was a full revenue inspection you’d have got away with it. I would advise anyone else not to do this.

 

[ngood77]

I would say in this case you’ve been lucky. I doubt if there was a full revenue inspection you’d have got away with it. I would advise anyone else not to do this.

I was simply following a journey that a Southeastern rep said was permissible. And no issue with the ticket gate scan.

 

[Tetchytyke]

n case it helps anybody I had no issue passing through at London Cannon St despite the itin.

It will probably scan at the ticket gates if it is London Terminals.

The issue in your case isn't the London Terminals, it's the ticket type. A normal anytime/off-peak return from Tonbridge to London Terminals would have been valid at Charing Cross/Cannon Street/London Bridge/Waterloo East/Victoria.

The point is that you can't deviate from your itinerary on an Advance ticket. If you book your ticket to a specific station that's where technically you must go.

 

[ngood77]

And Blackfriars and City Thameslink.

All I’m doing is passing on what I was told and have ‘in writing’ from a Southeastern rep, and was then backed up by the ticket gate programming.

Don’t think there would’ve been any price difference between the two destinations so it doesn’t really matter.

I just wanted to point it out because I wouldn’t be surprised if it has caught out those less au fait with the anomalies in the ticketing system and how what’s shown on screen when buying a ticket isn’t necessarily exactly the same as what comes out on the printed/digital ticket.

Happy to mark this as closed if there is such a function.

 

[paul1609]

And Vauxhall and London Waterloo.

 

[ngood77]

And Vauxhall and London Waterloo.

Thumbs up emoji

 

[Benjwri]

And Blackfriars and City Thameslink.

All I’m doing is passing on what I was told and have ‘in writing’ from a Southeastern rep, and was then backed up by the ticket gate programming.

Don’t think there would’ve been any price difference between the two destinations so it doesn’t really matter.

I just wanted to point it out because I wouldn’t be surprised if it has caught out those less au fait with the anomalies in the ticketing system and how what’s shown on screen when buying a ticket isn’t necessarily exactly the same as what comes out on the printed/digital ticket.

Happy to mark this as closed if there is such a function.

You haven’t shared this advice from the southeastern rep?

Regarding these suggestions, there is no entitlement to do what you are doing. You might get away with it, but it only takes one staff member taking the rules literally and you’re in trouble. Just book your advance to the furthest station if you might get off there. You’re much better stopping short than over travelling.

 

[ngood77]

You haven’t shared this advice from the southeastern rep?

Regarding these suggestions, there is no entitlement to do what you are doing. You might get away with it, but it only takes one staff member taking the rules literally and you’re in trouble. Just book your advance to the furthest station if you might get off there. You’re much better stopping short than over travelling.

Totally agree with you, I’m just sharing my experience. Here is the advice from Southeastern…

Hi Nicos, that ticket is correct you can go to London Terminals on the 08:25 train only. So London Bridge and London Cannon Street. You can not use this ticket to get to Charing Cross. The information is correct. If you feel this is not clear, you can leave feedback here:

Cheap Train Tickets, Rail Times & UK Train Fares | Southeastern

Buy cheap train tickets to London, East Sussex, Kent & More with Southeastern. Check train times via the Southeastern website & save on credit card and booking fees

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

help-and-contact/get-in-touch/contact-us ^HS


10:00


The ticket itin is 0825-0902 which is the time it arrives at LB. On your definition I'm meant to alight at LB and cannot stay on the train to LCS ?


12:37 J/


Hi, the screenshot you uploaded earlier showed London Terminals? Meaning London Bridge or Cannon Street. ^HS

 

[miklcct]

Totally agree with you, I’m just sharing my experience. Here is the advice from Southeastern…

How about taking a unreservable, connecting service to London Charing Cross? Does the ticket say Southeastern only, with the reserved train to London Bridge?

If so, the ticket is no different from one obtained by booking to London Charing Cross on an unreservable connecting service from London Bridge to London Charing Cross.

 

[Somewhere]

And Vauxhall and London Waterloo.

Back in the day Kensington Olympia used to count as London Terminals too

 

[ngood77]

How about taking a unreservable, connecting service to London Charing Cross? Does the ticket say Southeastern only, with the reserved train to London Bridge?

If so, the ticket is no different from one obtained by booking to London Charing Cross on an unreservable connecting service from London Bridge to London Charing Cross.

This was the ticket…

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looks like an Advance Single on yesterday's 0825 from Tonbridge to London Bridge. That's as far as the ticket holder should have travelled using the ticket, although the train itself then continued to London Cannon Street.

 

[ngood77]

Looks like an Advance Single on yesterday's 0825 from Tonbridge to London Bridge. That's as far as the ticket holder should have travelled using the ticket, although the train itself then continued to London Cannon Street.

Not according to the Southeastern rep.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Surely if you want to travel on the 0825 train from Tonbridge to London Cannon Street with an advance ticket, you buy the Advance Single with the Mandatory Reservation being from Tonbridge to London Cannon Street, and not to London Bridge (intermediate station)?

 

[miklcct]

This was the ticket…

If it is a paper ticket there's no doubt that the leg from London Bridge to Charing Cross won't be printed if it is unreservable. Not really sure about e-ticket though, possibly depending on the retailer.

The same for a unreservable connecting service from London Bridge to Cannon Street as well.

This is really a grey area because there is no way for a passenger at the station to know if a service is reservable or not, so, if you want to play safe, buy a paper ticket forcing an unreservable connection at London Bridge.

 

[ngood77]

Surely if you want to travel on the 0825 train from Tonbridge to London Cannon Street with an advance ticket, you buy the Advance Single with the Mandatory Reservation being from Tonbridge to London Cannon Street, and not to London Bridge (intermediate station)?

I wanted the choice between the two, and following the advice from the rep the Advance Single was the cheapest option. I appreciate their advice may, or may not, have been wrong but once advice is given by an official rep, especially when ‘in writing,’ then customers can’t then be blamed or penalised for following said advice. I then wanted to test it out for future reference.

 

[maniacmartin]

If the ticket was issued to London Terminals and the connection you wanted to Charing Cross was both nonreservable and complies with the Not HS1 route code then I would say that what you did was valid.

Finding out which trains are reservable is not obvious. I believe they used to be noted in the PDF timetables issued by Network Rail but I have not checked in a long time.

 

[miklcct]

If the ticket was issued to London Terminals and the connection you wanted to Charing Cross was both nonreservable and complies with the Not HS1 route code then I would say that what you did was valid.

Finding out which trains are reservable is not obvious. I believe they used to be noted in the PDF timetables issued by Network Rail but I have not checked in a long time.

In the country direction, metro services (i.e. those to Hayes, Dartford, Gravesend, Orpington, etc.) are non-reservable while mainline services (i.e. those to Dover, Margate, Maidstone, Canterbury, Hastings, Tunbridge Wells) are reservable.

They are indistinguishable in the London direction, similar to the case of taking a connecting service from Clapham Junction to London.

 

[redreni]

In the country direction, metro services (i.e. those to Hayes, Dartford, Gravesend, Orpington, etc.) are non-reservable while mainline services (i.e. those to Dover, Margate, Maidstone, Canterbury, Hastings, Tunbridge Wells) are reservable.

They are indistinguishable in the London direction, similar to the case of taking a connecting service from Clapham Junction to London.

Quite. Any rule that relies on the distinction between reservable and unreservable trains really doesn't give the average passenger much chance of knowing what will be allowed.

I guess in the TOCs' minds it doesn't matter because passengers on advances should stick to their itineraries and any discretion around not checking, or checking but not strictly enforcing, aspects of this restriction is for the TOC to know about and passengers to be grateful for when it works in their favour. I must say I do like to know what the actual rules are, though.

 

[fandroid]

You haven’t shared this advice from the southeastern rep?

Regarding these suggestions, there is no entitlement to do what you are doing. You might get away with it, but it only takes one staff member taking the rules literally and you’re in trouble. Just book your advance to the furthest station if you might get off there. You’re much better stopping short than over travelling.

The stopping short advice might be dodgy on longer journeys outside London. If the Advance price for the longer journey undercuts the price for the shorter one then the TOC will not be pleased at users of that ploy