London Terminals

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Loey

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Hi all - sorry if this question has been done to death before.

My question is over charges for fares to London Terminal stations.

Principally, whether buying a season ticket to London Terminals, from Peterborough on EC into Kings X, means you are able to use the LU to Moorgate (3 stops), or whether you have to buy a separate tube ticket, or travelcard, to cover the journey.

I understand that Kings X and Moorgate share some common routes (via Stevenage in this case) hence the question.

I've called National Rail by phone (they said you have to buy a separate tube ticket), and e-mailed them (they said you don't need to buy a separate tube ticket - the ticket to London Terminals covers LU travel from Kings X to Moorgate).

I think I'll probably get more sense on here !

Any thoughts ?
 
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bb21

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Peterborough - London Terminals is valid into Moorgate.

The Manual said:
It is a historical passenger right that tickets from the north to London Terminals, where travel is into Kings Cross, are also valid to continue from Kings Cross / St Pancras Und. to Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but not by FCC "Thameslink" trains as these do not go to Moorgate.
The Manual said:
... between Kings Cross / St Pancras Und. and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines, but intermediately at Old Street ONLY.
 

yorkie

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I've called National Rail by phone (they said you have to buy a separate tube ticket)
That is incorrect.
and e-mailed them (they said you don't need to buy a separate tube ticket - the ticket to London Terminals covers LU travel from Kings X to Moorgate).
That is correct.
I think I'll probably get more sense on here !
Agreed. When someone posts incorrect information here, it is usually challenged/corrected and may be deleted. The problem with NRE is that you can't easily identify which information is correct, if you have been given two conflicting answers.

However some issues are debatable/uncertain, in which case people here will usually say that. NRE may be less inclined to admit when that's the case.
 

benk1342

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Out of curiosity, will the ticket open the Underground gates at King's Cross/St Pancras or will you have to have a debate with someone? (Or the third alternative I guess is that the staff at King's Cross/St P are familiar with the situation and you won't have to have a debate.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Peterborough - London Terminals is valid into Moorgate.

Originally Posted by The Manual
It is a historical passenger right that tickets from the north to London Terminals, where travel is into Kings Cross, are also valid to continue from Kings Cross / St Pancras Und. to Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but not by FCC "Thameslink" trains as these do not go to Moorgate.
Originally Posted by The Manual
... between Kings Cross / St Pancras Und. and Moorgate (via Circle, Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines, but intermediately at Old Street ONLY.
Are these kinds of pearls of wisdom from The Manual available to us layfolk anywhere? What other goodies are there?
 

Mike395

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Tube barriers at Kings Cross St Pancras are programmed to accept London Terminals/London Thameslink tickets from north of London for exactly this reason - similarly, Kings Cross/St Pancras mainline station ticket barriers should not eat tickets with this destination either (confirmed with St Pancras, not so sure about Kings Cross?) :)
 

benk1342

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... Kings Cross/St Pancras mainline station ticket barriers should not eat tickets with this destination either (confirmed with St Pancras, not so sure about Kings Cross?) :)
True at King's Cross as well—I always wondered why the barriers gave me my (apparently useless) ticket back and now I know!
 

David Goddard

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True at King's Cross as well—I always wondered why the barriers gave me my (apparently useless) ticket back and now I know!
Useful to know- saves having to queue and ask to be let through so you can retain it. Does it then get kept on arrival at Moorgate?


AFAIK, London Terminals tickets used into Waterloo are vaild through to Charing Cross via Waterloo East. This appeared on a FAQ leaflet when the gates went in at Waterloo, stating that they will return the ticket for use through to CX.
 

bb21

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AFAIK, London Terminals tickets used into Waterloo are vaild through to Charing Cross via Waterloo East. This appeared on a FAQ leaflet when the gates went in at Waterloo, stating that they will return the ticket for use through to CX.
From the south, London Terminals tickets are valid into a number of stations such as London Bridge and Charing Cross, and along Thameslink as far as City Thameslink.
 

Loey

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Thanks to all !!

2 final questions :

1) When I travel to Kings X, with the ticket marked for London Terminals, will I be able to access the underground via the ticket machines ? &

2) Will I get out the other end at Moorgate ?

Or will I have to do battle with the staff at either ?
 

34D

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Thanks to all !!

2 final questions :

1) When I travel to Kings X, with the ticket marked for London Terminals, will I be able to access the underground via the ticket machines ? &

2) Will I get out the other end at Moorgate ?

Or will I have to do battle with the staff at either ?
From previous experience, both LU gatelines are fine. At one point, the barriers at KX 9-11 were keeping london terminals tickets, but this was corrected I believe last year.

By the way, if you're ever planning to get a weekly/monthly/annual season ticket on this route, then don't buy peterborough-london terminals. Do PM me and I'll recommend an alternative ticket to buy.
 

Loey

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By the way, if you're ever planning to get a weekly/monthly/annual season ticket on this route, then don't buy peterborough-london terminals. Do PM me and I'll recommend an alternative ticket to buy.
Great - thanks - have just done so !!!!!!!!!
 

clagmonster

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Advance tickets would depend on the route of the ticket and what reserved trains you have though.
If the route was 'Operator Only' (eg EC Only), then travel would be barred on the Underground due to Condition 10. The same would apply to operator only walk up tickets. If the route was geographic, or 'operator & Connections', then I as far as I can see travel to Moorgate would be permitted as it is a valid connecting service.

I don't see how reservations come into it as all Underground services are unreservable.
 

hairyhandedfool

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I was thinking more of the comment about London Terminals approaching from the South, however I agree a geographic route restriction and/or reservation on a ticket to London Terminals would not rule out a trip from Kings Cross to Moorgate by LUL.

It was actually a response to Lyesbkz, but that post apparently was changed before I posted.
 

Dr Dave

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Does the Moorgate to Kings Cross thing work backwards? I.e. is a return ticket bought at Moorgate for travel northwards on FCC valid for return back via Kings Cross?

Thanks
 

Loey

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You might have a battle with the Underground staff. Their instructions is to only accept as a rule tickets marked with Maltese cross.

To cover yourself you can buy tickets to London Zone U1 but that is mainly Anytime fares. But there are some locations where Off Peak fares are available.
It kind of defeats the purpose if I have to buy a Zone U1 ticket, as my question was whether I could go from Kings X to Moorgate on a ticket to London terminals, without the need to have any additional LU costs on top.
 

calc7

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You might have a battle with the Underground staff. Their instructions is to only accept as a rule tickets marked with Maltese cross.

To cover yourself you can buy tickets to London Zone U1 but that is mainly Anytime fares. But there are some locations where Off Peak fares are available.
Can you substantiate this claim? I have never personally bought an Anytime Return fare routed as such, but bought several SVRs and Advances such-inclined.
 

hairyhandedfool

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The historical link for LUL services to Moorgate still stands, I'd be surprised if LUL staff don't know about it tbh, it should be valid both ways.
 

clagmonster

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I would expect the only way to Moorgate with a London Terminals ticket would be on local FCC services going into Moorgate. Unless there are engineering works or unexpected disruption when arrangements would be made to pass tickets on TfL services. I will check the Manual tomorrow.
ECML tickets being valid through to Old Street/Moorgate is the exception to the rule. The extracts from the manual have already been posted further up the thread.
 

calc7

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Some TOC's do offer Advance to Zone U1. But locally they are only Anytime or Off Peak. Good example is SWT where there no Advance to any Zone. But you can buy an Advance to any station within the zones but it is to a specific station.
So you mean a "walk-up fare"? That's ok, then. I can't speak for SWT but I've bought Advance tickets from Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross all including some sort of Zone U12* Londn travel.
 

richw

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As a rule London Terminals fare are not valid on TfL services. The exception would be in the event of any disruption when a TOC asks TfL to pass their tickets.

I would expect the only way to Moorgate with a London Terminals ticket would be on local FCC services going into Moorgate. Unless there are engineering works or unexpected disruption when arrangements would be made to pass tickets on TfL services. I will check the Manual tomorrow.
The islander, there is a relaxation on the rules for customers from the north, who may under grandfather rights use a London terminals ticket to moorgate VIA lul





You might have a battle with the Underground staff. Their instructions is to only accept as a rule tickets marked with Maltese cross.

To cover yourself you can buy tickets to London Zone U1 but that is mainly Anytime fares. But there are some locations where Off Peak fares are available.


Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 

34D

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Does the Moorgate to Kings Cross thing work backwards? I.e. is a return ticket bought at Moorgate for travel northwards on FCC valid for return back via Kings Cross?

Thanks
Yes, as I understand it.

The islander, there is a relaxation on the rules for customers from the north, who may under grandfather rights use a London terminals ticket to moorgate VIA lul
ECML route only, not MML etc.

There will be no problems whatsoever at Kings Cross or Moorgate barriers. Drama queens, please do chill.

The only place where you may need to politely ask someone to check with their supervisor could be Old Street.
 

causton

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The only place where you may need to politely ask someone to check with their supervisor could be Old Street.
Isn't Old Street classed as a London Terminal? So I reckon any ticket to 'London Terminals' would go through the barrier and be fine.

Tried this many times before, so has my friend with an Old Street - Hatfield season. No problems with going back and forth between KGX - Old Street :)
 

David Goddard

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ECML route only, not MML etc.
This is interesting and intreaguing, given that through services ECML - Kings Cross - Moorgate ceased in 1976, yet those from the MML only ceased within the last five years.
So this means that passengers from Bedford & Luton etc now have to pay more to reach Moorgate?
 

34D

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Isn't Old Street classed as a London Terminal? So I reckon any ticket to 'London Terminals' would go through the barrier and be fine.

Tried this many times before, so has my friend with an Old Street - Hatfield season. No problems with going back and forth between KGX - Old Street :)
It is indeed. But less NR passengers get off there compared with Moorgate. I found the LU gate staff there to get confused easily - surprisingly really when you consider that FCC's head office is round the corner.

This is interesting and intreaguing, given that through services ECML - Kings Cross - Moorgate ceased in 1976, yet those from the MML only ceased within the last five years.
So this means that passengers from Bedford & Luton etc now have to pay more to reach Moorgate?
Yes sir they do. Not fair really! There may have been a brief concession (few months) but I don't recall.
 

Loey

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Just a note to say that I took the advice from the people on here and it worked a treat !

Absolutely no problem getting through either Kings X or Moorgate.

Thanks for your help everyone ;)
 
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