Is there an official source for London Thameslink being valid into KGX? The official NR site says it isn't, which obviously is ridiculous, but it's all I can find. The only other thing I've been able to find is messages from GTR on Twitter, but I'd rather something a bit better than that if possible. This is for reassuring a friend.
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London Thameslink from the north at King's Cross
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gazthomas
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It's not valid. It's not on Thameslink. St Pancras International is of course. Will try and find a link for you
Failed Unit
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From where specifically? On the old great northern routes it is.
LA50041
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Kings cross is on the Thameslink network and has a number of departures daily to Cambridge
gazthomas
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gazthomas
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Failed Unit
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Welwyn Garden City - London Thameslink is valid into Kings Cross. It is not possible to do it yet (if ever) direct.
put it in the journey planner and it will tell you to walk to St Pancras.
many other former GN destinations are the same.
alistairlees
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Certainly the Southern Railway website would suggest that it isn't. Here are three queries
Welwyn Garden City to Kings Cross
https://ticket.southernrailway.com/journeys-grid/WGC/KGX/2019-10-18T10:30//1/0/
Journeys are all direct to Kings Cross; fares are to London Terminals (£11.90 for an Anytime Day Return) only. No fares to London Thameslink are shown.
Welwyn Garden City to St Pancras
https://ticket.southernrailway.com/journeys-grid/WGC/STP/2019-10-18T10:30//1/0/
Journeys are all direct to St Pancras; fares to both London Terminals (£11.90) and London Thameslink (£12.90)
Welwyn Garden City to London Thameslink
https://ticket.southernrailway.com/journeys-grid/WGC/4452/2019-10-18T10:30//1/0/
Journeys are all direct to St Pancras; fares to both London Terminals (£11.90) and London Thameslink (£12.90)
There may be some times of the day / days of the week when it is quicker to go to STP and walk to KGX (or vice versa) than going direct, and those might throw up different results.
swt_passenger
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One of the early webpages stated quite clearly that tickets from the GN to London Thameslink were only valid at Kings Cross for “interchange purposes” and IIRC we then discussed how unenforceable that was...
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bb21
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For all intents and purposes, I doubt anyone would take offence if you used it to get to/from King's Cross.
I would say that the Southern website shows fairly definitively that a ticket from Welwyn Garden City to London Thameslink is valid, as Failed Unit put it, "into London Kings Cross" - that is to say onboard a train which goes from Welwyn Garden City to London Kings Cross.
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You can even search Welwyn Garden City to St Pancras via King's Cross
https://ticket.southernrailway.com/journeys-grid/WGC/STP/2019-10-18T10:30//1//?via=KGX
to get itineraries with a direct train into King's Cross followed by a 16-minute walk to St Pancras, with both London Terminals (£11.90) and London Thameslink (£12.90) tickets offered.
In this case the ticket allows break of journey so you can just leave King's Cross without walking to St Pancras, and of course any break-of-journey restriction would be completely unenforceable, but strictly speaking if you have a ticket disallowing break of journey with an itinerary ending in a walk are you breaking the rules if you don't take the walk? (Edit: For example a Cambridge to King's Cross - not London Terminals! - Carnet ticket, which is offered with an itinerary from Cambridge to St Pancras followed by a walk, and which disallows break of journey.)
https://ticket.southernrailway.com/journeys-grid/WGC/STP/2019-10-18T10:30//1//?via=KGX
to get itineraries with a direct train into King's Cross followed by a 16-minute walk to St Pancras, with both London Terminals (£11.90) and London Thameslink (£12.90) tickets offered.
In this case the ticket allows break of journey so you can just leave King's Cross without walking to St Pancras, and of course any break-of-journey restriction would be completely unenforceable, but strictly speaking if you have a ticket disallowing break of journey with an itinerary ending in a walk are you breaking the rules if you don't take the walk? (Edit: For example a Cambridge to King's Cross - not London Terminals! - Carnet ticket, which is offered with an itinerary from Cambridge to St Pancras followed by a walk, and which disallows break of journey.)
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I agree. If somebody were to buy a ticket to London Thameslink which is more expensive than a ticket to London Terminals and then try to use it to Moorgate or London Kings Cross (or London Liverpool Street where there is a permitted route to it, e.g. from Cambridge), it would be a very anti-consumer practice to try to charge them anything more.
bb21
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I am not going to pass any judgement on what I think of validity to Moorgate.
alistairlees
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That’s fair enough. I only really had time to do some straightforward queries.
Envy123
Member
So my mother can use the peak time fast services to and from Huntingdon to Kings Cross and change for a Thameslink train there, on a London Thameslink ticket?
captionextend
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A while ago I bookmarked this page: https://www.railplan2020.com/frequently-asked-questions which says
"Customers who wish to travel to any London Thameslink station including London St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle may do so by purchasing a London Thameslink ticket where available. Customers with London Thameslink tickets may also break their journey at Kings Cross to provide greater flexibility, however they are not valid on the Moorgate branch."
Having just checked it today it seems the javascript is broken and clicking on the questions doesn't expand the answers, so to get that text I pasted above, you can either disable javascript, do a view-source, or look on the Internet Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20180518114329/https://www.railplan2020.com/frequently-asked-questions
"Customers who wish to travel to any London Thameslink station including London St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle may do so by purchasing a London Thameslink ticket where available. Customers with London Thameslink tickets may also break their journey at Kings Cross to provide greater flexibility, however they are not valid on the Moorgate branch."
Having just checked it today it seems the javascript is broken and clicking on the questions doesn't expand the answers, so to get that text I pasted above, you can either disable javascript, do a view-source, or look on the Internet Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20180518114329/https://www.railplan2020.com/frequently-asked-questions
swt_passenger
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Thanks for digging that info out, that’s exactly the sort of thing I was looking for before posting reply #9.
...and welcome to the forums as well.
Use a journey planner to plan the journey from your origin station to, say, Blackfriars (or any other station in the Thameslink core). Check that it's offering you the London Thameslink ticket. Then change your journey to say "via King's Cross". Check that it's still offering you the same London Thameslink ticket. Print out the itinerary if you want something to show that the ticket is valid via King's Cross.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I should add. From north of London there is a very limited service at the moment between Finsbury Park and St Pancras. Most of the time the quickest route will he via Kings Cross.
things will maybe change if the full Thameslink timetable is ever implemented. But I still change at kings cross the majority of the time. No-one bats an eyelid. Should I end my journey there the railway hasn’t lost any money.
things will maybe change if the full Thameslink timetable is ever implemented. But I still change at kings cross the majority of the time. No-one bats an eyelid. Should I end my journey there the railway hasn’t lost any money.
Envy123
Member
I do recall one time when a Peterborough train was cancelled at Farringdon, one of the staff announced that passengers for Biggleswade, St Neots and Huntingdon to go via King's Cross.
Tickets from Great Northern Stations to London Thameslink are absolutely valid to Kings Cross and will work the barriers in my experience.
Even GTR RPIs at their absolute worst wouldn't try to claim they weren't valid!
Even GTR RPIs at their absolute worst wouldn't try to claim they weren't valid!
Failed Unit
Established Member
Isn’t it technically still the shortest route? (By distance) but certainly on a Sunday I wouldn’t want to wait for the hourly service. Or in the evening at the weekend after the Cambridge- Brighton service stops operation
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