London to Brentwood

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ji459, 8 Nov 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ji459

    ji459 Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2011
    Looking at fares from London to Brentwood and back on a Saturday, the cheapest fare I found on the Southeastern website was a super off peak day return at £8.30. The origin is down as London Terminals and all the trains shown depart from London Liverpool Street. If I amend the search to say avoid London Liverpool Street, I get the same £8.30 fare. However, the origins change to either London Bridge or London St Pancras. The itineraries for the London Bridge departures show travel by tube to Stratford and for London St Pancras show travel on HS1 to Stratford International and then "Metro" to Stratford.

    Being able to travel to and from London Bridge or London St Pancras with that ticket would be ideal, but I'm amazed that it seems to be possible. Is it really true?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    38,428
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    It's incorrect. There are fares from London Terminals to Brentwood, which include a £8.30 ticket which is a 'CBA - SUP OFFPK DAY R'

    But if you were to start the journey on the London Underground, then you would require a ticket with an appropriate origin, in the case of a Zone 1 station that would be 'Zone U1* London', and there is no 'CBA' fare on offer from that origin.

    If you are travelling from near London Bridge, my recommendation would be to take a bus to Liverpool Street, and use a London Terminals ticket from there.

    If you are travelling from London St Pancras, then there is a good argument to say that London St Pancras to Stratford International, then a walk to Stratford London, followed by a train to Brentwood is valid (see other topics). However transfer by DLR is not included in the price. You can walk through Westfield Shopping Centre.

    You could try contacting NRE about this misleading information, and if a satisfactory response is not received you can take it to Passenger Focus/London Travelwatch.
     
  4. district

    district Member

    Messages:
    957
    Joined:
    4 Aug 2011
    Location:
    SE16
    If the origin is 'London Terminals' then you are permitted to start your journey from any London Terminal along any reasonable and permitted route, by which London Bridge and London St. Pancras are both examples.

    To my knowledge this ticket isn't valid with the London Underground connection between London Bridge and Stratford. The HS1 connection should be valid under the 'Any Permitted' route description.

    Edit: This agrees with yorkie's post above. LU isn't included on this ticket but starting from a reasonable london mainline terminal and using national rail is.
     
  5. coupwotcoup

    coupwotcoup Member

    Messages:
    210
    Joined:
    29 Jul 2007
    Many people who travel from Brentwood to London drive to Harold Wood first (last station in Zone 6) as our local streets can testify each and every day.
     
  6. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    My interpretation of the situation is that travel from St Pancras is allowed as it is an "Any Permitted" ticket and transferring at Stratford means that the St Pancras route is only 2 miles longer than the shortest route, hence valid.
     
  7. ji459

    ji459 Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2011
    Thanks for the replies
     
  8. barrykas

    barrykas Established Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Joined:
    19 Sep 2006
    Southeastern would, rightly or wrongly, disagree with you. From their website:

    And also:

    And indeed, putting St Pancras to Brentwood via Stratford International into FasTIS comes up with an "Illegal Routeing" warning. Zone U1 (more accurately, Marylebone, so as to give times) to Brentwood, on the other hand, shows as being perfectly valid via HS1.

    Cheers,

    Barry
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    If Stratford London - Stratford International is an official interchange then SET cannot overwrite a route permitted by the Routeing Guide.

    I shall be very cross with SET if a Route Any Permitted fare excludes travel on HS1 on a permitted route.
     
  10. barrykas

    barrykas Established Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Joined:
    19 Sep 2006
    Except such journeys are explicitly NOT permitted by the routeing guide, per "easement" 600069:

    Whilst I grant you that the "from" should probably be "from/via", the intention seems quite clear to me...
     
  11. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    Ah, but a certain few people (not including me just to clarify) on the forum will tell you that easements are not applicable to shortest routes as they do not need to be consulted. :lol:
     
  12. NLC1072

    NLC1072 Member

    Messages:
    546
    Joined:
    17 May 2010
    Location:
    South East Ireland
    As an expert on Brentwood fares, I can tell you that. The £8.30 London terminals is only valid to Liverpool st or Stratford...
     
  13. CompactDstrxion

    CompactDstrxion Member

    Messages:
    496
    Joined:
    8 Jun 2009
    I had a fair bit of trouble a while ago when trying to use a Zone U1 to Chelmsford ticket via HS1. Eventually, Southeastern admitted it was a valid route by the 3 mile rule, but they said they would be amending the fares to fix this. This hasn't materialised. There are fares from St Pancras to Brentwood route 'Plus High Speed' but I see no reason why you must buy these when London Terminals to Brentwood is route Any Permitted. Just don't expect it to be straightforward on the day.

    The negative easement (should they actually be enforceable) only applies to journey from Stratford Domestic not via Stratford Domestic as written.
     
  14. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,212
    Joined:
    16 Apr 2010
    Location:
    Reading
    The SDR and SDS on that flow are regulated fares (commuter fares basket), so there's not a lot they can do...
     
  15. NLC1072

    NLC1072 Member

    Messages:
    546
    Joined:
    17 May 2010
    Location:
    South East Ireland
    Theres an actual specific fare which is entered into the tribute machines as BRE - STP and instead of London Terminals (1072) coming up, it routes you high speed and into St Pancras.
     
  16. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    Unfortunately I cannot see how SET can justify refusing travel on the aforementioned cheaper ticket to STP.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page