London to Brighton

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DLA365

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On the National Rail website, it says that a CDR costs £8.65 provided I board at London Bridge (presumably Thameslink service), whereas it costs £11.10 if I want to take a service from London Victoria (Southern).

Is this because Thameslink offer cheaper fares when using their services? IIRC, I had bought a CDR from Kings Cross Thameslink on 1st May, but the ticket did not mention any restrictions as far as operators were concerned. So would it be an evasion of fare if I bought my ticket at Kings Cross Thameslink and returned on a Southern train from Brighton?
 
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yorkie

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The former will probably be "Route Thameslink", the latter probably "Any Permitted". (I am saying that without checking based on when I last went to Brighton). There may also be a "Route Southern", possibly.

The Any Permitted can be used on Gatwick Express.

Also, a return to somewhere like Portsmouth/Bournemouth etc is also valid via Brighton, if you want to do a circular route.
 

yorkie

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DLA365 said:
So would it be an evasion of fare if I bought my ticket at Kings Cross Thameslink and returned on a Southern train from Brighton?
On a "Route Thameslink" ticket, you'd need an Excess fare for the return portion (which is 50% of the difference in fares).

As Penalty Fares apply on Southern I think you would have to do it before boarding or it might be possible for them to PF you, but I am not sure on that.
 

Tom C

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Thameslink operate a penalty fare system on all trains from all stations. Southerns network is now almost 100% penalty fare, the only stations that I can think of that are not are Faygate, Pevensey Bay, Holmewood, Ockley and Warnham and all diesel only stations (Edenbridge Town to Uckfield and Ore to Ham Street). For all other stations you must have a ticket before boarding, and definately for Thameslink.

I am sure there is a "Southern only" flow from Victoria.
 

yorkie

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Something that is worth adding is that where there are ever routes that don't have 'Any permitted' fares (e.g. London to Gatwick :roll: , London to Southend :roll: ), you can always get round it by getting an excess fare (of the routeing type) to go back by a different TOC/Route, or... by buying from another station ;) .

(for example Clapham Jn to Southend Stns is available via C2C or 'one').

But don't ever expect ticket office staff to tell you any of this.

Don't let the TOC's screw you! <D
 

Galvanize

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Back in May, Yorkie did a meet which involved Southern Slammers to Horsham. He bought Zone 6 boundary extensions to Horsham with route any permitted, so we could get the Gatwick Express (if there were any EDs out but we got a vadar instead as
a. There weren't any 73s out
b. Joy54 and OTS had other plans
 

Galvanize

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Remember, you wanted to do the "Marston Vale" line from Bedford to Bletchley and a MML HST to Bedford back on the 7th May. Did you remember that meet?

Elliotbird went on it and so did Mr Jolly, Yorkie, OTS and I
 

yorkie

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Galvanize said:
Remember, you wanted to do the "Marston Vale" line from Bedford to Bletchley and a MML HST to Bedford back on the 7th May. Did you remember that meet?
Ironically we did not do that, partly because the fares were too high, but mostly because of the lack of an 'Any Permitted' ticket. At that time I didn't realise about excess fares.

Of course, having the knowledge that I have now (see reply to DLA above) I should have asked for an excess for one of the portions.
 

Met Driver

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Galvanize said:
Yes Sir! I was just using an example of what Yorkie said about Route Any Permitted tickets.

I was referring to this post:

Galvanize said:
Remember, you wanted to do the "Marston Vale" line from Bedford to Bletchley and a MML HST to Bedford back on the 7th May. Did you remember that meet?

Elliotbird went on it and so did Mr Jolly, Yorkie, OTS and I
 

Techniquest

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CDR prices to Brighton seem different to when I bought one in March then...Maybe not, I can't remember how much I paid at Victoria for mine.

I believe I had an 'Any Permitted' CDR to Brighton. Why didn't someone tell me it would valid on GEx? Would have done GEx before a couple of other members then...As it was though, the 377s I did to Brighton didn't call at Gatwick Airport, so perhaps it was a good thing that I did them from Victoria.

Referring to another post here, if I am right in my reading of your post, if I bought a Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour ticket (probably SVR, can't imagine it being a CDR), it would be valid via, say, Horsham on the way there (I only want to do that way as it's an irritating gap on my map), then via Brighton on the way back? Even better would be if it were valid via the Brighton avoider from Hove.

Oh yes, and before I forget, if I am on a VT service (I'm looking at doing an ADEX this summer soon you see) with a rover that reaches only as far as Cheltenham (this would be going from Bristol), would I be able to buy a Y-P ticket on that train covering me from Cheltenham (or Bristol, if it doesn't stop at Chm) without having to alight?

You see, I am planning to do one of them from Exeter SD soon, but I'm not sure whether the one I'll get stops at Cheltenham Spa, if it doesn't obviously I'd need a BP - BNS ticket to cover me, if it does stop there a CS to BNS ticket. The question I'm laying down is whether VT would make me pay a full fare to BNS, or whether, as long as I asked for it before we got to the last point I could go to, they'd be able to sell me a ticket onwards to BNS so I wouldn't need to change trains. If there were HSTs on the route apart from one or two every Saturday this summer, it wouldn't be so bad, but I'd rather get the HST to BNS, not just to CS.
 

yorkie

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FGWFan said:
I believe I had an 'Any Permitted' CDR to Brighton. Why didn't someone tell me it would valid on GEx?
I think that's a rhetorical question but in case it isn't, and to clarify, the onus isn't on the ticket sellers to specify which TOCs it's valid on without you asking, but if you ask them they should always say that an 'Any Permitted' ticket is valid on any TOC that operates that route.

However the experience I have with the ticket sellers at Victoria is very poor, and I wouldn't rely on what they say anyway. They can get particularly narky if you ask them for an excess fare, and get desperate to find any excuse not to issue it.

Some conductors on GatEx appear reluctant to accept 'Any permitted' tickets and look at them as though they're a bit of dirt, this is probably because they think of themselves as some sort of exclusive operation but they aren't - they must accept Any permitted tickets.

I say abolish it. <D I don't see how it can survive given the capacity problems on that route, it's on borrowed time. And the ticketing situation is a disgrace, with the lack of 'Any permitted' tickets to Gatwick.

It's all designed with company profits in mind, it's not to the benefit of passengers who just want to turn up and go and get any train.
 

AlexS

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Nevertheless, it's also designed with airport passengers in mind, and if you are having to fight for a seat, complete with bags and cases, against 500 commuters, then it's not doing what it is designed to do.
 

yorkie

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AlexS said:
Nevertheless, it's also designed with airport passengers in mind, and if you are having to fight for a seat, complete with bags and cases, against 500 commuters, then it's not doing what it is designed to do.
The solution may be to create more 1st class (with extra luggage space etc) on this route and encourage airport passengers (who are apparently prepared to pay a premium) to travel 1st class.
 

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To do that, I suspect you would have to find a way around the rules of the Network GoldCard, which I believe makes for cheap first class, and is a favourite among commuters. Maybe having the normal premium price as the first class fee for airport passengers, and then having the rest of the train open to normal passengers, at the standard Network Rail fee...
 

yorkie

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AlexS said:
To do that, I suspect you would have to find a way around the rules of the Network GoldCard, which I believe makes for cheap first class, and is a favourite among commuters. Maybe having the normal premium price as the first class fee for airport passengers, and then having the rest of the train open to normal passengers, at the standard Network Rail fee...
A similar approach to Weekend First (at least on GNER) could be used, where a specific coach/area is allocated to it, and other areas are 1st Class tickets only (ie not upgrades).
 
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