London to Coseley

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The_Van

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Hello everyone

quick question I have an advance single from London to Coseley this coming saturday.

the itenary shows that I should travel to Wolverhampton and then back to Coseley whereas I expected to have to change at Birmingham NS on to the local stopper.

I also have a seat reservation card from London to Wolverhampton.

why is it permitted to go past my destination and return back?

thanks in advance
 
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dvboy

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I had a look through Easements and couldn't find one, though it would make sense if it gets you to Coseley sooner than changing at BHM (12 mins) onto the Stopper would, technically it is doubling back. You have a reservation so wouldn't worry about it.
 

SickyNicky

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Indeed. If you're using an advance ticket you MUST travel on the reserved train all the way to Wolverhampton, regardless of whether the route is permitted.

Why the booking engines are allowing such a route, which is technically not permitted, is another matter.
 

button_boxer

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I didn't think Advance tickets were necessarily subject to the usual permitted route rules. It may be a route that wouldn't be allowed on an "any permitted" ticket, but for an Advance (presumably routed VWC and connections) you have to follow the itinerary as given, at least on the reserved legs.
 

50010 Monarch

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I saw a similar situation the other day when I was checking out some options for a Wolves to Thatcham single journey.

One of the advance ticket options showed Wolves to Reading, Reading to Newbury & then a double back from Newbury to Thatcham.

As an earleir post has stated it must be because the journey is made quicker by doubling back.
 

clagmonster

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I believe that the reason this is offered by booking engines is that Coseley is not a timing point for services booked to pass there, therefore the routeing engines do not know that the New St-Wolves service passes through Coseley, therefore they do not know that the doubling back takes place. This is not the first time that such instances of doubling back have been seen by routeing engines, and some have been fixed by the addition of negative easements. However, this would be slightly tricky to achieve in this case because Wolverhampton is on a permitted route (when travelling via Bescot).
 

34D

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I didn't think Advance tickets were necessarily subject to the usual permitted route rules. It may be a route that wouldn't be allowed on an "any permitted" ticket, but for an Advance (presumably routed VWC and connections) you have to follow the itinerary as given, at least on the reserved legs.
I don't think our guy would risk sanctions if he alighted at New Street though (discuss)
 

MarkyMarkD

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If, in the unlikely event you were asked to produce the reservation to a guard on the New Street to Coseley journey, you would have a problem, as you wouldn't be on a legitimate part of the route that advance ticket allowed you to travel.
 

Eagle

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...therefore the routeing engines do not know that the New St-Wolves service passes through Coseley...
Which it doesn't 100% of the time anyway (some services, mainly late-night ones, go via Tame Bridge).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If, in the unlikely event you were asked to produce the reservation to a guard on the New Street to Coseley journey...
Except they never would, as those services are not reservable. Oops, forgot about BHM–LIV services.
 
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MarkyMarkD

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But officially if you are travelling on the unreserved part of an Advance ticket, the guard should still check the reservation coupon. Otherwise you could be travelling at completely the wrong time - say BEFORE the reserved section even though it should be AFTER the reserved section.
 

All Line Rover

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It is definitely quicker to change at Wolverhampton instead of Birmingham on certain journeys (and I suspect this is so in your case). For example:
  • London Euston [07:23] to Wolverhampton [09:11] - Wolverhampton [09:19] to Coseley [09:24]
  • London Euston [07:23] to Birmingham [08:45] - Birmingham [09:08] to Coseley [09:26]
In light of the above, there is no reason for you to change at Birmingham instead of Wolverhampton. You MUST travel on your entire reservation, otherwise you run the risk of getting into trouble.

I can't explain why the booking engine allows you to double-back. I've never heard of routes that ONLY have Advance ticket available, especially as booking engines won't display routes that have no walk-up tickets.
 

6Gman

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It is definitely quicker to change at Wolverhampton instead of Birmingham on certain journeys (and I suspect this is so in your case). For example:
  • London Euston [07:23] to Wolverhampton [09:11] - Wolverhampton [09:19] to Coseley [09:24]
  • London Euston [07:23] to Birmingham [08:45] - Birmingham [09:08] to Coseley [09:26]
In light of the above, there is no reason for you to change at Birmingham instead of Wolverhampton. You MUST travel on your entire reservation, otherwise you run the risk of getting into trouble.

I can't explain why the booking engine allows you to double-back. I've never heard of routes that ONLY have Advance ticket available, especially as booking engines won't display routes that have no walk-up tickets.
Realistically though, does the 2 minute saving in journey time compensate for the risk of an 8 minute connection?
 

All Line Rover

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Realistically though, does the 2 minute saving in journey time compensate for the risk of an 8 minute connection?
Booking engines won't take that into account, though, and you are still obliged to travel on the reserved service. There are three trains an hour from Wolverhampton to Coseley, so the OP need not worry.
 

Oscar

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Realistically though, does the 2 minute saving in journey time compensate for the risk of an 8 minute connection?
On a walk-up ticket you could probably make that decision best on the train when approaching Birmingham New Street based on how close to time the train was running at this point. If travelling with a group or if you had to make this decision in advance, I think it would probably be worth going with the longer Birmingham connection time. However, the ticket in question is an Advance and so the reservation system makes the decision for you, based simply on the fastest connection or the connection with the fewest changes using the minimum connection time. The system is therefore not sophisticated enough to make the best decisions in all scenarios - not surprising as it is a computer!
 
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