London to Edinburgh - Break of Journey?

[Mcr Warrior]

:? Is it permitted to break journey on the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return (SVR) London to Edinburgh ticket as follows? Proposed itinerary is London Kings Cross to Newcastle (and/or Berwick upon Tweed), alight there for three/four hours or so, before catching a Northbound service later that same day to Edinburgh and then returning in due course back South via the West Coast Main Line?

 

[glynn80]

:? Is it permitted to break journey on the outward portion of an Off-Peak Return (SVR) London to Edinburgh ticket as follows? Proposed itinerary is London Kings Cross to Newcastle (and/or Berwick upon Tweed), alight there for three/four hours or so, before catching a Northbound service later that same day to Edinburgh and then returning in due course back South via the West Coast Main Line?

An Off Peak Return (SVR) between London and Edinburgh has validity code 1X

Validity Code 1X
XEC
Code used from/via Stevenage and London to stations in Scotland and Berwick on Tweed.
JOURNEYS FROM/VIA LONDON AND STEVENAGE.
Available as listed below MONDAYS-FRIDAYS (By any train on other days)

Outward Travel
Valid by any train.
Break of journey is not permitted, except to change trains.

Return Travel
Valid by any train except those timed to arrive at London Terminals before 1000 (London Euston 10.05).
Valid on all ScotRail (FSR) Caledonian Sleeper services (with supplement).


So the answer is no you cannot break your journey on the outward portion of a SVR from London to Edinburgh.

The definition of a break of journey as defined in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage is as follows:

... you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff.

So if you wish to break your journey at Newcastle to take photos on the station for example there would be no problem, however if you were to leave the station premises and return you would not be allowed to resume travel using that ticket, as you would have been deemed to of broken your journey.

 

[OwlMan]

Yes, the off peak return (saver) does not allow a break of Journey on the outward journey, although the Super Off Peak (super saver ) does allow one.

Peter

 

[mark_hammond75]

Is there any chance of being able to do it with a SVR to Glasgow? Avantix says that an outward BOJ is allowed on that ticket. However it does say that restriction 1W applies from Kings Cross Stevenage... No idea what that restriction is, but it probably says no outward break. If it does, why not go from Liverpool Street and join the east coast main line at Peterborough.

The SVR to Glasgow is also a lot cheaper than the SVR to Edinburgh (£108 vs £168!) - and i can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to travel to Edinburgh on it... I recently used a Glasgow ticket like this to travel to Newcaslte with an overnight stop on the way out in Manchester... I picked up the ECML and Doncaster and the guard was perfectly happy with my ticket...

If you're only breaking the journey for a few hours i'd be temped to just do it anyway - you could lie and say you got off for some food and used the station facilities...

 

[me123]

London Terminals-Glasgow Cen/Qst costs £108.80. Restriction 5F. Again, "Break of journey is not permitted, except to change trains."

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, the off peak return (saver) does not allow a break of Journey on the outward journey, although the Super Off Peak (super saver ) does allow one.

Peter

:-P That's interesting! What's the equivalent Validity Code information for a 'Super Off Peak Return' London-Edinburgh ticket?

 

[glynn80]

:-P That's interesting! What's the equivalent Validity Code information for a 'Super Off Peak Return' London-Edinburgh ticket?

The Super Off Peak Return (SSR) between London and Edinburgh has validity code 9D.

Validity Codes 9D
XEC

• Code used to stations in England(except Berwick on Tweed) from/via Stevenage and London)

• These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.

• For journeys on Cross Country via/to Birmingham, use restriction code 2V.

• For travel FROM or VIA: London Terminals, Stevenage, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.

Outward Travel
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART:

London King’s Cross: Between 0929 & 1457 (inc.) and at or after 1859. Also allowed at or after 1815 on Fridays only.
London Liverpool Street: Between 0930 and 1629 (inc.) and at or after 1834, although travel is permitted on the 16.36 from London Liverpool Street to Braintree for destinations Hatfield Peverel to Braintree only.
London St Pancras International: Between 1026 & 1500 (inc.) and at or after 1901
Bedford: Between 1026 & 1500 (inc.) and at or after 1901
Luton: Between 1026 & 1500 (inc.) and at or after 1901
Luton Airport Parkway: Between 1026 & 1500 (inc.) and at or after 1901
Stevenage: Between 0946 & 1457 (inc.) and at or after 1859
Stratford (London): Between 09.35 & 16.35 (inc.) and at or after 18.42


Return Travel
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE:

London King’s Cross: At or after 1117
London Liverpool Street: Not valid on any train arriving before 1000 (see note below)
London St Pancras International: At or after 1151
Bedford: At or after 1151
Luton: At or after 1151
Luton Airport Parkway: At or after 1151
Stevenage: At or after 1039
Stratford (London): Not valid on any train arriving before 09.50

EDIT-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

London Terminals-Glasgow Cen/Qst costs £108.80. Restriction 5F. Again, "Break of journey is not permitted, except to change trains."

Where do you get that from?? Because on the FRPP it doesn't state that?

Validity Code 5F
VT

• These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.

• For travel TO or VIA: London (including Luton Airport Parkway, Luton, Milton Keynes, Watford Junction and Reading) but not Kings Cross & Stevenage. Code 9D applies for journeys to/via Kings Cross & Stevenage

Outward Travel
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART:

London Euston: At or after 0905
Milton Keynes Central: At or after 0900
Watford Junction: At or after 0900

Return Travel
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE:

London Euston: At or after 1005
Milton Keynes Central: At or after 1020
Watford Junction:At or after 1020

• Note that on the Friday before Bank Holidays afternoon restrictions will NOT apply to Off-Peak tickets for travel from/via/to Euston, Watford Junction and Milton Keynes Central. Normal morning peak restrictions will apply.

• Note that for Easter, restrictions will NOT apply for travel on Virgin Trains between midday on Thursday 9th April to Mon 13th April inclusive.

 

[mark_hammond75]

I can see where me123 is coming from... in Avantix it says does mention it, but I'd argue that it may well be from the 1W bit:

The details for 1W
Code used from/via Scotland
and Berwick on Tweed to/via
Stevenage and London.

Journeys to/via London
and Stevenage.
Available as listed below
MONDAYS-FRIDAYS. (By any train
on other days).

Outward Travel:
Valid by any train except
those timed to arrive London
Terminals before 1000 (London
Euston before 1005).

Valid on all Scotrail (FSR)
Caledonian Sleeper services
(with supplement).

Break of journey is not
permitted, except to change
trains.

Anyway, when I made my journey with an over night break in Manchester both NRE and the guard were happy that I could break my outward journey.

However... it's priced by Virgin, and I'm sure everyone knows that 'An outward break of Journey is not allowed on Virgin Trains'.... what ever that actually means

 

[glynn80]

I can see where me123 is coming from... in Avantix it says does mention it, but I'd argue that it may well be from the 1W bit:

It may be in Avantix, but that is not updated very regularly (only when a new edition is released). The FRPP is the authoritative source of information when it comes to restrictions on tickets and is where railway staff will look when checking validity codes.

Anyway, when I made my journey with an over night break in Manchester both NRE and the guard were happy that I could break my outward journey.

NRE are very well known to be a terrible service when it comes to informing the public on the validity of their tickets. I would never trust any information given out by NRE.

However... it's priced by Virgin, and I'm sure everyone knows that 'An outward break of Journey is not allowed on Virgin Trains'.... what ever that actually means

If this is the case, Virgin will need to make that clear in their validity codes, until they have done that, the ticket is still valid for break of journey on the outward portion.

 

[First class]

If possible get the SuperSaver which has no boj restriction.

 

[yorkie]

It's virtually impossible to enforce anyway. Did you see my article in Railtalk magazine?

Berwick hasn't got barriers (yet) as far as I know.

 

[glynn80]

It's virtually impossible to enforce anyway. Did you see my article in Railtalk magazine?

Berwick hasn't got barriers (yet) as far as I know.

I think it would be easy to enforce in this case.

If the OP took a NXEC service from London to Berwick, has his ticket stamped with the headcode of the service. Then he breaks his journey, exits the station and returns three hours later.

OP then boards an NXEC service three hours later, guard checks his ticket, notices the headcode for the service three hours earlier and questions the OP. OP claims not to of left the station and thus claims he has not broken his journey. The guard suspects he has broken his journey and left the station during the three hours, he thus charges his the full fare from Berwick to Edinburgh.

The guard can charge the fare if he has a suspicion of fare evasion. The OP can refuse to pay and can give his name and address to the guard, who will submit a 'Report of Irregular Travelling' (or equivalent Train Company document) to their Revenue Protection Office. If he refuses to give his name and address or the guard believes a further criminal offence (like fraud) has occured he can seek the assistance of the BTP or an RPI to take the issue further.

Obviously the OP afterwards can claim he has never left the station etc., whether NXEC/BTP accept that and don't take it any further and check CCTV is another issue, if they do then the OP will have gotten away with it. It is still however a lot of hassle that could be avoided. If however CCTV is checked and the issue is taken further the OP could be in more serious trouble.

Many may feel that the TOC wouldn't bother over such a petty issue but many more trivial issues have been pursued in the past (a 10p fare evasion springs to mind in West Yorkshire).

 

[t0ffeeman]

Catch an NX that finishes at Newcastle. Join an XC to Edinburgh. Then BOJ at Berwick or on return...

 

[mark_hammond75]

Any way, what's the crack with the FRPP? I've seen it mentioned a few times but I haven't the foggiest what it is. What is it and do I as a passenger have access to it?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If possible get the SuperSaver which has no boj restriction.

Sounds good (And it's cheaper than a SVR!)

Catch an NX that finishes at Newcastle. Join an XC to Edinburgh. Then BOJ at Berwick or on return...

:roll: On return?

Any way, what's the crack with the FRPP? I've seen it mentioned a few times but I haven't the foggiest what it is. What is it and do I as a passenger have access to it?

FRPP. That would be the Fares and Retail Publications Portal. Not available for public viewing, as far as I am aware.

https://frpp.tso.co.uk/welcome/

 

[mark_hammond75]

A word of warning on the SSR... I was on a trian coming back from Manchester yesterday and the train manager warned the entire train that super savers weren't valid on this service. As far as I know that's a load of poppycock as there are plenty of routes on AS that would pass through Manchester on the way to London from Edinburgh, but they may well try and claim the same is true on the whole of the WCML. Can anyone else think of a reason why a SSR to Edinburgh woudln't be valid on the WCML?

It's interesting to note that there doesn't seem to be any restriction on your arrival time into Euston for the SSR (in Avantix at any rate)...

As for this FRPP thing - why can't it be accessed by the public? how am i meant to be able ot make an informed descission on which ticket to buy if I can't access the information? And don't say contact NRE :-x

 

[glynn80]

As for this FRPP thing - why can't it be accessed by the public? how am i meant to be able ot make an informed descission on which ticket to buy if I can't access the information? And don't say contact NRE :-x

It can't be accessed via the public because it is an internal railway document with information that would not be suitable for the public at large.

The quickest way to find information from the FRPP is to ask on here. If you want the response to be official so that you can show it to guards, email/write to ATOC and ask them for said information. Avantix also has the majority of information from the FRPP with regard to validity codes etc., but it is not always 100% accurate as it is not updated as regularly as the FRPP.

 

[OwlMan]

A word of warning on the SSR... I was on a trian coming back from Manchester yesterday and the train manager warned the entire train that super savers weren't valid on this service. As far as I know that's a load of poppycock as there are plenty of routes on AS that would pass through Manchester on the way to London from Edinburgh, but they may well try and claim the same is true on the whole of the WCML. Can anyone else think of a reason why a SSR to Edinburgh woudln't be valid on the WCML?

It's interesting to note that there doesn't seem to be any restriction on your arrival time into Euston for the SSR (in Avantix at any rate)...

As for this FRPP thing - why can't it be accessed by the public? how am i meant to be able ot make an informed descission on which ticket to buy if I can't access the information? And don't say contact NRE :-x

There was a correction to code 9D published:
Super Off-Peak restriction 9D
Please note restriction 9D accidentally lost its time restrictions from, and returning to, Euston.
Please note travel from Euston is allowed on trains timed to depart at or after 09.05; whilst on the return, these
tickets are allowed on trains timed to arrive in Euston at or after 10.05. This has been done with the agreement
of Virgin West Coast.
The revised restriction will be published with NFM 03 on FRPP.

So the return is valid for all daytime trains from Edinburgh to Euston (as none arrive before 1005)

Peter

 

[glynn80]

There was a correction to code 9D published:
Super Off-Peak restriction 9D
Please note restriction 9D accidentally lost its time restrictions from, and returning to, Euston.
Please note travel from Euston is allowed on trains timed to depart at or after 09.05; whilst on the return, these
tickets are allowed on trains timed to arrive in Euston at or after 10.05. This has been done with the agreement
of Virgin West Coast.
The revised restriction will be published with NFM 03 on FRPP.

So the return is valid for all daytime trains from Edinburgh to Euston (as none arrive before 1005)

Peter

Yes this was posted in another internal railway document called Newsrail Express, this is available to the public through The Ticket Collector blog.

The issue in question is 386 (http://theticketcollector.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/newsrail-express-386/)

 

[me123]

Where do you get that from?? Because on the FRPP it doesn't state that?

Validity Code 5F
...

Below I'm posting the full text of Restriction Code 5F as copied from the version of NRM02 currently installed on my computer. Apologies in advance for the length!

Restriction : 5F
FOR TRAVEL TO OR VIA:
London (including Luton
Airport Parkway, Luton, Milton
Keynes, Watford Junction and
Reading) but NOT Kings Cross
& Stevenage. Code 1W applies
for journeys to/via Kings
Cross & Stevenage

These restrictions apply
Monday to Friday. By any train
on other days.

OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train
that is scheduled to DEPART as
shown below:

RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train
that is scheduled to ARRIVE_as
shown below:

DEPART: LONDON EUSTON
At or after 0905.

ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON
At or after 1005

(see note below)
DEPART: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
At or after 0900

ARRIVE: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
At or after 1020

DEPART: WATFORD JUNCTION
At or after 0900

ARRIVE: WATFORD JUNCTION
At or after 1020


The details for 1W
Code used from/via Scotland
and Berwick on Tweed to/via
Stevenage and London.

Journeys to/via London
and Stevenage.
Available as listed below
MONDAYS-FRIDAYS. (By any train
on other days).

Outward Travel:
Valid by any train except
those timed to arrive London
Terminals before 1000 (London
Euston before 1005).

Valid on all Scotrail (FSR)
Caledonian Sleeper services
(with supplement).

Break of journey is not
permitted, except to change
trains.

Return Travel:-
Valid by any train.
BVS/BVR/SVS/SVR OFF-PEAK
FSR/FSS/SFR/BFR/BFS
OFF-PEAK (First Class)

Outward/Single/Return Travel:
_____________AVAILABLE ANY DAY

Ticket Code: BVS/SVS
Ticket Class: STANDARD
Ticket Name: OFF-PEAK
Single/Return: SINGLE
Out Validity:-
Day - DATE ON TICKET
Time - SEE BELOW
Break of Jrny: (OUT) YES
Pre-Booking Requirement: NONE
Reservations Compulsory: NO
Child Discount: YES
Railcard Discount: YES
Group Discount: YES
Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION

Ticket Code: FSS/BFS
Ticket Class: FIRST
Ticket Name: OFF-PEAK
Single/Return: SINGLE
Out Validity:-
Day - DATE ON TICKET
Time - SEE BELOW
Break of Jrny: (OUT) YES
Pre-Booking Requirement: NONE
Reservations Compulsory: NO
Child Discount: YES
Railcard Discount: YES
Group Discount: YES
Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION

Ticket Code: BVR/SVR
Ticket Class: STANDARD
Ticket Name: OFF-PEAK
Single/Return: RETURN
Out Validity:-
Day - DATE ON TICKET
Time - SEE BELOW
Return Validity:-
Day - ONE CALENDAR MONTH
Time - SEE BELOW
Break of Jrny: (OUT) YES
(RTN) YES (SEE NOTES BELOW)
Pre-Booking Requirement: NONE
Reservations Compulsory: NO
Child Discount: YES
Railcard Discount: YES
Group Discount: YES
Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION

Ticket Code: FSR/SFR/BFR
Ticket Class: FIRST
Ticket Name: OFF-PEAK
Single/Return: RETURN
Out Validity:-
Day - DATE ON TICKET
Time - SEE BELOW
Return Validity:-
Day - ONE CALENDAR MONTH
Time - SEE BELOW
Break of Jrny: (OUT) YES
(RTN) YES (SEE NOTES BELOW)
Pre-Booking Requirement: NONE
Reservations Compulsory: NO
Child Discount: YES
Railcard Discount: YES
nroup Discount: YES
Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION

NOTES:
1) Time restrictions are
indicated by a restriction
shown against the ticket's
validity code.
2) Holders of 16-25, Senior,
Disabled Persons, HM Forces
and Family & Friends Railcards
, New Deal Photocards and
Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards
travelling with Off-Peak
tickets may use ANY Virgin
train service, as long as the
journey being made is priced
by Virgin Trains. If the
journey is not priced by
Virgin Trains then the stated
Off-Peak restrictions apply.
3) Only Senior, Disabled
persons and HM Forces
Railcards discounts are
offered with First Class
Off-Peak Tickets.

BREAK OF JOURNEY
Break of journey is allowed on
Off-Peak tickets unless
otherwise indicated by a
restriction shown against
the ticket's validity code.

Off-Peak Singles and the
outward portion of Off-Peak
Returns are valid for travel
on the date shown on the
ticket. Where a journey can't
be completed within one day,
break of journey for an
overnight stay is allowed.
Where a journey continues into
the next day, travel must
resume before 1200 and any
relevant time restrictions
apply. No further break of
journey is allowed except for
the purposes of changing
trains.

Return portions of Off-Peak
Return tickets are valid for
travel until 0230 on the day
following the last day of
validity (i.e. one calendar
month from the outward
journey). If a passenger is
still travelling at 0230, they
may stay on the train to
complete that part of the
journey but no further break
of journey is allowed and all
travel must be completed by
1200.

Note: Cross London transfers
will only be accepted by
London Underground on the
date shown on the ticket (or
last day of validity for
Off-Peak Returns) and until
0429 the following day.

TICKET INFORMATION:
Off-Peak tickets are not valid
when the journey is affected
by a restriction shown against
the ticket's validity code.

Tickets with a 'Maltese Cross'
shown in the route description
allow transfer across London
on London Underground,
Docklands Light Railway or
First Capital Connect
(Thameslink route) services
appropriate to the route of
the through journey being made

Any local validity easements
can be found in the Easements
section EASEMENTS.

Travel restrictions do not
apply on Public Holidays.

NETWORK AREA:
The London & South East
Network Area is shown in the
London Area Fares section E0

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting within the Network
Area to destinations outside
the Network Area with travel
via London are valid by any
train to London, to connect
with trains from London.

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting outside the Network
Area for travel via London use
restrictions from the origin
station to London and return.
Unless shown otherwise, they
are unrestricted between
London and the destination
station, and return.

SELLING AN OFF-PEAK TICKET
Customers should be told of
any restriction which may
affect any part of their
journey.

Where available, an
information card giving ticket
validity details should be
given out with each Off-Peak
ticket.

 

[glynn80]

Below I'm posting the full text of Restriction Code 5F as copied from the version of NRM02 currently installed on my computer. Apologies in advance for the length!

OK, done a bit of digging on this.

Avantix Traveller is out of date with regard to restriction code 5F. Validity Code 1W as you posted, is no longer used for journeys out of Kings Cross, it is validity code 9D as I already posted below when I copied 5F from the FRPP.

Validity Code 9D as we have already established when discussing the Super Off Peak Return, does not have any break of journey restrictions on its outward portion.

Obviously you weren't to know that Avantix Traveller was out of date if you didn't have access to the FRPP yourself, but this does raise the issue that it can reveal incorrect information due to its lack of updates between edition releases.

Also while digging I found an edition of Newsrail Express from 15 December 2008 stating

Please note, on the following restriction codes on flows priced by Virgin Trains, Break of Journey is not allowed on the Outward journey, but is allowed on the Return: VJ / VK / VM / VN / 3A / 5F / 9I / 2C / 9L / 2R / 2V

I do not know if this is still the case as there was an FRPP update after the 15 December and 5F was not updated with this information, but it could be the case that these restrictions still apply to 5F on journeys other than those out of Kings Cross.

 

[me123]

Thanks for clarifying

 

[yorkie]

If it went to court (which of course it would not), no court in the land would force a passenger to cough up for breaking his or her journey.

There's no way they can prove you broke your journey (ie left the station) at Berwick, and it's legit to stay on the station for 3 hours. No-one is going to check CCTV.

It's a bonkers rule, dreamed up by managers who drive wasteful fast cars who never travel by train and get some perverse pleasure at the thought of us not being able to break out outward journey. Stuff 'em, they can't stop you.

The ticket conditions say that you generally CAN break your journey, and the rules that say you can't are so complex that they'd almost certainly be deemed unfair in contract law.

(The above is my opinion and IANAL)

 

[glynn80]

If it went to court (which of course it would not), no court in the land would force a passenger to cough up for breaking his or her journey.

There's no way they can prove you broke your journey (ie left the station) at Berwick, and it's legit to stay on the station for 3 hours. No-one is going to check CCTV.

Who would anyone want the hassle and stress of it going to court though when it could easily be avoided by purchasing a valid ticket?

 

[yorkie]

Has anyone ever been taken to court for the terrible 'crime' of leaving station premises while on the outward portion of a Saver? I suspect not.

 

[glynn80]

Has anyone ever been taken to court for the terrible 'crime' of leaving station premises while on the outward portion of a Saver? I suspect not.

Not that exactly, but a story you yourself informed me of, was just as ridiculous and pretty similar to the case here.

Train firm takes man to court in 40p dispute
(http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Train-firm-takes-man-to.1245369.jp)

A LAW student from Yorkshire is being taken to court by Northern Rail for 40p after it claimed he got off the train at the wrong stop – despite his insisting it was a case of mistaken identity.

The rail company claims that although Daniel Jackson, 19, bought a ticket from Bradford Forster Square to Burley in Wharfedale in March this year, he actually got off the train at Ben Rhydding, which is the next stop, and costs 40p extra.

But Mr Jackson, a first year student at the University of Westminster in London, maintains that he got off at Burley in Wharfedale, near Bradford, where he lived, as he did every day from work.

He was on a gap year before going to university and was working at a firm of solicitors in the centre of Bradford to save up for a trip to Tanzania in the summer.

Mr Jackson said he was not challenged by anyone on the day and the first he knew of the court proceedings was when his parents opened a letter addressed to him five months later while he was in Tanzania working on a charity project. He had to return home early from the two-month project for a court hearing at Dewsbury Magistrates Court.

The case has emerged just weeks after the Yorkshire Post revealed Northern Rail was also prosecuting a passenger who accidentally underpaid her fare by just 10p – and demanding £100 in costs.

Jennifer Burton described the decision by Northern Rail to pursue the case against her as "absolutely crazy" after she mistakenly bought the ticket as
she rushed to the first day at her new job in Leeds.

Mr Jackson said: "I felt as though I had been punched in the stomach when I was told about the court summons."

With his word against the train conductor's, he is now being sent for trial in January and says he will have to represent himself because he is not entitled to legal aid since the amount Northern Rail are claiming in compensation is so small.

Mr Jackson, who said he has never been in trouble with any authority before, said he was worried about his impending court case because, if successful, the prosecution could end his career as a barrister before it even starts.

"It is really affecting my university work because I'm learning about the courts and constantly being reminded that I have to go there in January," he said.

"If I wasn't a legal student I would have probably pleaded guilty for convenience, even though I haven't done anything wrong, but I can't afford to do that because I would then have a criminal record."

He added: "I asked Northern Rail in the pre-trial review whether or not it had applied the test of proportionality, that is if it thought this case was in the public interest and whether it thought that taking matters to court was the appropriate course of action.

"It said specifically to the court that it had applied the test, and it did think it was in the public interest. I also asked if it considered itself justified in spending public money to this end. It responded yes, it did."

He added: "I'm sure it is a case of mistaken identity. The conductor sold me the ticket on the train and I got off at Burley in Wharfedale with a load of other people, all dressed in suits as I was. They obviously didn't see me get off the train and maybe thought I got off next stop.

"The trouble is there isn't any CCTV footage to back me up. It's my word against the conductor's and I just can't believe they have taken it this far for the sake of 40p."

A spokeswoman for rail operator Northern said it was unable to comment on individual cases still going through the courts.

"However, non-payment of fares is estimated to cost the rail industry £210m each year. Day-to-day revenue costs can be substantial when passengers continue to avoid paying their fares on a regular basis," she said.

"The amount involved is irrelevant and Northern Rail will continue to pursue offenders as it has a zero tolerance on fares evasion and is committed to the honest fare-paying customer."

In this case they didn't even use CCTV footage to prove that the passenger exited a particular station, it was just a railway employees word against the passengers and the court believed the railway employee.

If station staff at Berwick were to witness the OP exiting the station or even worse CCTV footage existed of the incident the court, it seems would side with the Train Company. And seeing as Northern were prosecuting over a 40p difference, imagine the lengths NXEC would go to for 50 times that amount.

 

[yorkie]

He was accused of travelling over distance rather than breaking his journey, which is completely different.

I agree the story is shocking though.

 

[glynn80]

which is completely different.

Yeh, completely :roll:

 

[16CSVT2700]

And seeing as Northern were prosecuting over a 40p difference, imagine the lengths NXEC would go to for 50 times that amount.

Heard about that 40p thing the other day in training. Some people eh..