London to Glasgow Non-Stop

[LSWR Cavalier]

Was it one of the runs with the LMS Coronations that had to brake violently on the approach to Crewe?

That was the one I was thinking of, I think a lot of crockery was destroyed, the people on the train were very scared. Nearly a disaster caused by mad promotional activities, trying to be faster than another railway company.

 

[Ianno87]

Looks like some invited guests on board - Mark Smith (Mr Seat 61) has Tweeted that he is one of them.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

How much does the electricity cost, at normal speed or top speed?

There were some disasters or near disasters in the past when trains were run very fast for publicity purposes, could that happen again? I remember a scary account of a speed attempt, only a miracle stopped the train derailing when it took a junction much faster than allowed.

I think there was one in France that derailed during a record attempt and fell into a river.

 

[hexagon789]

Was it one of the runs with the LMS Coronations that had to brake violently on the approach to Crewe?

Yes, and I think it ran over 15 or 20mph rated points at something like 60mph.

 

[Bald Rick]

1630 off Euston. Ran Dec 2008 to (IIRC) May 2014 or so.

I used it in September 2014, so it must have been a little later.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think there was one in France that derailed during a record attempt and fell into a river.

If that's the TGV one that I'm thinking of, I'm not sure that was a record attempt, just a routine test of a new line prior to opening. From memory, it was a missed braking point caused by distraction - there were apparently six or seven people in the cab.

 

[hexagon789]

I used it in September 2014, so it must have been a little later.

I think it was - May 2016 timetable change rings a bell.

 

[alistairlees]

Just 36 invited guests I believe on board. All socially distanced in 1st class.

 

[Ianno87]

I think there was one in France that derailed during a record attempt and fell into a river.

If that's the TGV one that I'm thinking of, I'm not sure that was a record attempt, just a routine test of a new line prior to opening. From memory, it was a missed braking point caused by distraction - there were apparently six or seven people in the cab.

Yes - it was an overspeed test run that had its speed supervision turned off for the purpose, and didn't brake in time for the end of the high speed line. There were some unofficial guests on board, including kids of the test staff.

I recall there was a rumour that they were going for a speed record, but I don't believe that was true.

Eckwersheim derailment - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

On 14 November 2015, a TGV train derailed in Eckwersheim, Alsace, France, while performing commissioning trials on the second phase of the LGV Est high-speed rail line, which was scheduled to open for commercial service five months later. The derailment resulted in 11 deaths among those aboard, while the 42 others aboard the train were injured. It was the first fatal derailment in the history of the TGV and the third derailment since the TGV entered commercial service in 1981

 

[Railperf]

Anyone know if this has got a dispensation on speed limits?

Looking at the schedule this is a normal run without any station stops and without any recovery / performance /pathing time running to more or less standard sectional running times.
Whether it actually is achieved will depend on a myriad of other factors. As we know - no day is the same on the railway. There's a lot that can work against you over 400 miles. Other train failures / delays/ trespassers, infrastructure faults/ bad weather - you name it!

 

[dk1]

Just 36 invited guests I believe on board. All socially distanced in 1st class.

That doesn’t sound much fun.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Small chance that the weather will be against them in the southern part of the run, yellow warning of heavy thunderstorms.

 

[jfollows]

Any ideas what the ideas is behind this working? 1Z57 class 390 Pendo set timetabled for a 3hr 51 minute non-stop run from Euston to Glasgow. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S00619/2021-06-17/detailed

I note also that it's scheduled for a week on Thursday, June 24th., as well. Presumably a backup schedule in case tomorrow's run isn't a success.

 

[hexagon789]

I note also that it's scheduled for a week on Thursday, June 24th., as well. Presumably a backup schedule in case tomorrow's run isn't a success.

Yes, it was mentioned they had a second attempt lined up.

If they do succeed tomorrow, I wonder whether they will cancel the back-up run or simply try and better the time even more?

 

[RailWonderer]

For a start the 10:23 Chester has been looped onto the slows between Tring and MK, and likely Northern and Scotrail train control will be getting a call as well to loop anything that might get in the way. I will be following the RTT in real time to see how it's doing, I am truly excited for this.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You only have to look at the TGV crash near Strasbourg recently to see the risks of disabling speed controls.
It was switched off to allow overspeed tests on the new line, and the driver didn't brake properly before the curves at the end of the LGV section.
There were also irregularities in the cab.

 

[Senex]

That was the one I was thinking of, I think a lot of crockery was destroyed, the people on the train were very scared. Nearly a disaster caused by mad promotional activities, trying to be faster than another railway company.

The June 1937 press-trip for the launch of the Coronation Scot. There were four people recording the running and there was a dynamometer car in the formation. The four recorders all agreed on a maximum of 112½ m.p.h. and the train then hitting the first of the crossover into Crewe at 57 m.p.h. for a 20-m.p.h. crossover. O S Nock says the train had to run through three successive crossovers — I think with the old Crewe layout this involved two succesive left-handers from the down fast and then a right-hander into platform 3. There were apparently comments at the lunch in the Crewe Arms afterwards that this would not be normal practice! Perhaps more interesting was that after lunch the same driver took the same locomotive back to Euston in what was for then the fantastic time of just 119 minutes, a time not to be seen again until electric working throughout began in 1966.

 

[D6130]

That doesn’t sound much fun.

Depends on what the catering offer will be!

 

[dk1]

Depends on what the catering offer will be!

True. Bring on the booze.

 

[XAM2175]

You only have to look at the TGV crash near Strasbourg recently to see the risks of disabling speed controls.
It was switched off to allow overspeed tests on the new line, and the driver didn't brake properly before the curves at the end of the LGV section.
There were also irregularities in the cab.

This would be relevant if it weren't for the fact that Avanti aren't disabling the speed limiter.

 

[Falcon1200]

For a start the 10:23 Chester has been looped onto the slows between Tring and MK, and likely Northern and Scotrail train control will be getting a call as well to loop anything that might get in the way. I will be following the RTT in real time to see how it's doing, I am truly excited for this.

Network Rail will no doubt have issued strict instructions to the Signallers and NR Controls concerned to keep a very close eye on this train and regulate accordingly, if necessary.

 

[d9009alycidon]

On another forum it was mentioned that a third series of "Inside Glasgow Central" is in preparation and that the film crew are aware of the run. So the (hopeful) triumphant arrival at Glasgow Central will be recorded for that programme.

 

[Railperf]

You only have to look at the TGV crash near Strasbourg recently to see the risks of disabling speed controls.
It was switched off to allow overspeed tests on the new line, and the driver didn't brake properly before the curves at the end of the LGV section.
There were also irregularities in the cab.

I cannot imagine there will be any disabling of speed supervision or safety systems. The schedule is designed to give the train a clear run at its normal operating speeds - which should allow it to match or better the APT record.
A normal service train would have additional stops added and recovery time / pathing / dwell time and performance allowances to maintain headways between it and other trains. I think the current London to Glasgow schedule has something like 26 mins of additional minutes added into the timetable for various reasons.

 

[Ianno87]

I cannot imagine there will be any disabling of speed supervision or safety systems. The schedule is designed to give the train a clear run at its normal operating speeds - which should allow it to match or better the APT record.
A normal service train would have additional stops added and recovery time / pathing / dwell time and performance allowances to maintain headways between it and other trains. I think the current London to Glasgow schedule has something like 26 mins of additional minutes added into the timetable for various reasons.

26 minutes being inclusive of:
-Station dwell times (6 stops in the standard pattern, so 12-15 minutes or so just from these)
-Engineering / Performance / Pathing allowances

It's not 26 minutes of "slack"!

 

[HST274]

On another forum it was mentioned that a third series of "Inside Glasgow Central" is in preparation and that the film crew are aware of the run. So the (hopeful) triumphant arrival at Glasgow Central will be recorded for that programme.

I hope so, I quite liked that program

 

[Railperf]

26 minutes being inclusive of:
-Station dwell times (6 stops in the standard pattern, so 12-15 minutes or so just from these)
-Engineering / Performance / Pathing allowances

It's not 26 minutes of "slack"!

The xx;10 shows around 18.5 mins of recovery/pathing/performance allowance and 23 mins dwell time for 8 stops - the lengthiest being 7.5 mins at Crewe.

According to another member - @LNW-GW Joint - this is because:

"The Glasgow is currently taking the path of the xx10 Chester/North Wales Voyager, though not its stop at Milton Keynes.
It then waits at Crewe to pick up its normal path (which would have been non-stop through Crewe, first stop Warrington).
The Crewe stop is to compensate for thinner services generally, with few Chester trains running south of Crewe, and the via Birmingham services to Glasgow being missing (the Edinburgh services generally run).
It's all due to get back to "normal" at the September timetable change."

 

[IslandDweller]

I'm all for the railway industry getting favourable publicity out of good news stories. But this one does rather stick in the gullet as there is no good news for the travelling public.
Over the last year Avanti have added extra time and extra stops into this service, swinging the time balance over to air - especially the London City route as the short check in means that truly is end to end faster than rail.
Add to that, over the last few weeks trying to buy tickets for Avanti services has been stupidity difficult, with reservations sometimes only opening up two weeks ahead. (Before anyone mutters Covid, LNER have managed to stick to the usual ticket release cycle, and they had the Kings Cross rebuild). I've driven a few times lately when I'd previously have used the train and my neighbour gave up her planned trip as she found trying to buy a ticket from Avanti impossible.
Avanti might want to go for the positive publicity stuff after they've sorted out the basics....

 

[Railperf]

I'm all for the railway industry getting favourable publicity out of good news stories. But this one does rather stick in the gullet as there is no good news for the travelling public.
Over the last year Avanti have added extra time and extra stops into this service, swinging the time balance over to air - especially the London City route as the short check in means that truly is end to end faster than rail.
Add to that, over the last few weeks trying to buy tickets for Avanti services has been stupidity difficult, with reservations sometimes only opening up two weeks ahead. (Before anyone mutters Covid, LNER have managed to stick to the usual ticket release cycle, and they had the Kings Cross rebuild). I've driven a few times lately when I'd previously have used the train and my neighbour gave up her planned trip as she found trying to buy a ticket from Avanti impossible.
Avanti might want to go for the positive publicity stuff after they've sorted out the basics....

You are forgetting this run has been organised to raise funds for charity - Action for Children and Railway Benefit Fund -which is a positive thing.

As explained above - Covid travelling restrictions and reduction in passengers using trains has forced TOC's to reduce the number of trains running - guided by the DfT who are paying for it.

Therefore the scheduled Glasgow service has picked up additional stops and pathing time - but is still significantly quicker than driving. And arguably not much slower than air taking into account airport transfers and waiting times.
If COVID restrictions ease in due course the standard timetable should be back to normal in September.
COVID is to blame for the reduction in services - not the TOC's or railway industry.
This charity run was apparently planned in 2020 before COVID had a say in matters - so the fact it is back on the agenda is also positive.
Whether or not a record is achieved isn't the main point. But those volunteering on the day will hope that their efforts will result in a record and a few quid raised for charity.

 

[Bigman]

I hope they put a cab ride video on You Tube. That will be a good 4 hours viewing I reckon.

 

[6Gman]

Seriously, you could of sold tickets to the public at a premium price and it would of funded itself.

They could have sold tickets, but given current travel advice that would itself have attracted criticism.