London to Newcastle via Carlisle

[winebottler]

Hello everyone - quick question, which is (hopefully) simple to answer.

Looking at the cheapest way to get to Carlisle in the next few days.

Would either of the following tickets be valid:

• Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Newcastle (via Euston and Carlisle)
  
• Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Edinburgh (via Euston)

Obviously I would be breaking my journey at Carlisle.

Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to the forum.

Have you tried the National Rail Enquiries site?

It's interpretation of the Routeing Guide is normally pretty accurate!

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/EUS/NCL/tomorrow/1100/dep?via=Carlisle

This shows London - Newcastle via Carlisle requiring two tickets ("You need to buy multiple tickets for this journey")

You can, of course, look up permitted routes using the Routeing Guide.

In this case, all the stations mentioned are Routeing Points (RPs), therefore there is no need to carry out the fares check rule to determine appropriate RPs.

Valid Routes from London Terminals to Newcastle [NCL]:

1. Direct trains from London Terminals to Newcastle
2. Shortest Route: 268.5 miles
   • London Kings Cross
   • Stevenage
   • Peterborough
   • Grantham
   • Newark North Gate
   • York
   • Northallerton
   • Darlington
   • Chester-le-Street
   • Newcastle
3. Mapped Routes:
   LONDON GROUP - Newcastle:
   • EE
   • EE + NE
   • ER
   • ER + NE
   • MM + ER
   • MM + PS + ER
   • WA + EE
   • WA + EE + NE
   • ZZ + NE

Valid Routes from London Terminals to Edinburgh [EDB]:

1. Direct trains from London Terminals to Edinburgh
2. Shortest Route: 391.75 miles
   • London Kings Cross
   • Stevenage
   • Peterborough
   • Grantham
   • Newark North Gate
   • York
   • Northallerton
   • Darlington
   • Chester-le-Street
   • Newcastle
   • Alnmouth
   • Dunbar
   • Drem
   • Longniddry
   • Prestonpans
   • Wallyford
   • Musselburgh
   • Edinburgh
3. Mapped Routes :
   LONDON GROUP - EDINBURGH GROUP:
   • AS
   • ZZ

Even map AS does not include the Tyne Valley route.

Of course, a ticket from London Terminals to somewhere like Hexham [[stn]HEX[/stn][ (in between [stn]NCL[/stn] and [stn]CAR[/stn]) Route: Any Permitted, would be valid via either route, but if using a return and travelling via Carlisle one way and via Newcastle the other, then it is cheaper to buy Route: via Carlisle and obtain a Change of Route excess fare for half the difference in price.

 

[winebottler]

Ah, that is a very useful tip for solving routeing questions.

Many thanks!

 

[Oscar]

Yorkie - are you sure about this? Tyne Valley stations tend to have two fares to/from London - one for travel via Carlisle and one for travel via Newcastle. The fares check means that Any Permitted fares are only valid either via Newcastle or via Carlisle. Then the appropriate TOC has also added a via Newcastle or via Carlisle fare which does not follow a Routeing Guide Permitted Route.

 

[RJ]

Plus, I'm sure there are at least two entries in the Easement document regarding this situation.

 

[lyndhurst25]

66
Journeys from Carlisle to London on tickets routed via Newcastle may use any permitted routes as defined in the National Routeing Guide. This easement applies in both directions.

300215
Customers travelling from London Kings Cross to Carlisle may not travel via Newcastle. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[yorkie]

London to Hexham is what I gave as an example, but if you look up a station that is clustered with Carlisle then obviously that will give a different result.

Anyway, as I said, Hexham has two routes: Any Permitted and via Carlisle, so if the plan is to do London - Carlisle - Hexham - Newcastle - London, then a London - Hexham Rte: via Carlisle SVR with a change of route excess (approx £5) to Rte: Any Permitted (SSR) would suffice - though it does depend on the time of travel, and on the length of time spent in Carlisle, which I do not know, so I cannot say for sure whether these tickets will be appropriate for the journey, though a journey could be made that does this route using those tickets.

Also I make no guarantees whatsoever that this is the best value way of doing it.

 

[RJ]

Hello everyone - quick question, which is (hopefully) simple to answer.

Looking at the cheapest way to get to Carlisle in the next few days.

Would either of the following tickets be valid:

• Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Newcastle (via Euston and Carlisle)
  
• Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Edinburgh (via Euston)

Obviously I would be breaking my journey at Carlisle.

Thanks.

So, are you going to Newcastle (as per the thread title) or Carlisle?

A Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Edinburgh is valid via Carlisle by virtue of map AS in the National Routeing Guide.

A single from London Terminals to Newcastle is not valid via Carlisle.

 

[yorkie]

66
Journeys from Carlisle to London on tickets routed via Newcastle may use any permitted routes as defined in the National Routeing Guide. This easement applies in both directions.

This easement is not really necessary, as a route specific fare over a route that is not in the Routeing Guide, that costs more than the Any Permitted ticket, is automatically valid via the routes that the Any Permitted ticket is valid on anyway (though some insist that a zero fare change of route excess should be issued).

300215
Customers travelling from London Kings Cross to Carlisle may not travel via Newcastle. This easement applies in both directions.

For an Any Permitted ticket, it is not a permitted route via Hexham. It's valid on the ECML as far north as York, but if a customer wished to travel via Newcastle & Hexham they should be charged half the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Rte: via Newcastle fare.

In both cases the 'easements' appear to clarify the situation that already would exist without them. There are many other 'easements' like that. They should be called 'clarifications'.

 

[Oscar]

This easement is not really necessary, as a route specific fare over a route that is not in the Routeing Guide, that costs more than the Any Permitted ticket, is automatically valid via the routes that the Any Permitted ticket is valid on anyway (though some insist that a zero fare change of route excess should be issued).

Which of the ticket types has to cost more? Most of the "via Carlisle" tickets are cheaper than "Any Permitted". In fact, only the First Anytime Return costs more via Carlisle.

 

[yorkie]

Which of the ticket types has to cost more? Most of the "via Carlisle" tickets are cheaper than "Any Permitted". In fact, only the First Anytime Return costs more via Carlisle.

You quoted my reply to the easement in respect of London to Carlisle tickets, however you are now discussing Route: via Carlisle therefore I'm guessing you are referring to London to Hexham tickets?

London to Hexham tickets are unaffected by easements applicable to London to Carlisle tickets, or London to Newcastle tickets, but to answer the question of validity, if the route is Any Permitted, then it is valid via any permitted route even if there is a higher priced route specific fare, if that route is a permitted route. It is also valid via any route that is not on a permitted route, if a lower priced route specific fare exists.

If travel is made on a route specific fare (e.g. London to Hexham via Carlisle SVR £109.20) and the customer returns via a route that requires the Any Permitted ticket (e.g. London to Hexham via Any Permitted) then the appropriate excess is charged, priced at half the difference between the fare paid (£109.20) and the appropriate fare (£119.00 - providing arrival into KGX was at or after 1117). Using that as an example the difference is £9.80, so half the difference is £4.90.

This is merely an example, as I do not know what time the OP is travelling and it is unclear what the travel plans are.

 

[winebottler]

So, are you going to Newcastle (as per the thread title) or Carlisle?

A Super Off Peak Single from London Terminals to Edinburgh is valid via Carlisle by virtue of map AS in the National Routeing Guide.

A single from London Terminals to Newcastle is not valid via Carlisle.

Sorry that wasn't very clear - I'm travelling to Carlisle on a single ticket but was wondering whether to buy the East Coast Super Off Peak (50% off deal) to Edinburgh (£60) or Newcastle (£57).

 

[johnnycache]

London to Carlisle

Here's a bargain

Saturday 28 July

Kings Cross 0145
Leeds 0404
Leeds 0619
Carlisle 0858

Advance £29.20

Can you be more specific about when you are travelling?