London to west bromwich

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by tannedfrog, 11 Nov 2011.

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  1. tannedfrog

    tannedfrog Member

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    I'd like to travel from shepherds bush to west brom tonight
    Ideally a flexible off peak return ticket
    I have zone 1 -6 travelcard and network railcard

    I believe the £34.70 off peak rtn from kenny o to sandwell and dudley is the best deal

    Can i start late at shepherds bush?
    What's the earliest i can arrive this evening after the evenin peak?

    Many thanks
     
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  3. island

    island Established Member

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    Validity code 9A describes the restrictions for this journey: valid on trains which depart [stn]KPA[/stn] between 0915 and 1514 or at or after 1812. Route NOT VIA LONDON. No break of journey restriction, so you're entitled to start late at [stn]SPB[/stn]. Looks to me like the first train it's valid on is the 1853 from [stn]SPB[/stn], change at [stn]WFJ[/stn] and arrive at [stn]SAD[/stn] at 2058.
     
  4. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    Bear in mind there is a signalling problem at Wolverhampton which may or may not affect you this evening.

    If you're willing to go via Euston there is a London Midland only ticket for £27 off peak return which will cost about an hour of time but, according to the LM website, is valid until the end of service in both directions
     
  5. Seacook

    Seacook Member

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    Marylebone - Langley Green off peak return is 25.00 (19.15 arriving at The Hawthorns 21.15 and Smethwick Galton Bridge 21.17).
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2011
  6. tannedfrog

    tannedfrog Member

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    Many thanks for your replies. On that £34.70 ticket which says "not London", on the way back when I arrive at Watford Junction, what are my options?

    Am I obliged to wait for the hourly Southern service?
    Is Overground via Willesden Junction acceptable using this ticket?
    If I leave Watford Junction station and re enter using my Oyster card, can I re join a Virgin service to Euston?

    Thanks
     
  7. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    No.
    Yes, but it's slow.
    Not officially, no, as Virgin services are "set down only" at Watford Jn in the "Up" (toward London) direction. You will find these trains are not advertised on the screens, and you may find that despatch staff may try to prevent you boarding. If the TM sees you board it is theoretically possible that they could attempt to charge you from the last station the train called at to London.

    There is no need to exit the station to touch in. You can go through the barriers and re-enter the barriers (admittedly this looks odd but if asked you can explain what you are doing), or you may be able to reach over the barrier to touch in (though this may not be possible at busy stations with loads of people going through the barriers). The opposite scenario is touching out, in order to use a paper ticket without leaving the paid-side of the barriers, and that is a lot easier as you can touch out and then simply turn around not going through the barrier. I did this at Finchley Rd about 3 weeks ago.
     
  8. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Watford Junction has validators inside the gateline at Watford Jn, including in the subway.
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Actually Watford Jn has Oyster validators in the subway, so if you're quick (position yourself so you're at the doors nearest the subway - near the middle of the train - someone else may be able to advice of exact coach) be one of the first off, dash down the subway and get back on the train. However before you do this, I would check if the guard is happy for you to use this combination of tickets on the same train, subject of course to you getting down and back up the steps in time.

    Station plan here: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/WFJ/stationOverview.xhtml

    (When I did this at Finchley Road, I just missed the train I was on as the doors closed as I approached - but Pendolinos will take longer to despatch!)
     
  10. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Aren't we getting into the same argument we had before regarding whether split-tickets are only valid on trains that stop to both set down and pick up at the split point? Did we ever reach a consensus?

    To the OP: I would agree that you can ask the guard, however I wouldn't get my hopes high as I wouldn't really be surprised if he/she says no (on a Virgin Trains service).
     
  11. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I might be missing something here, but if the travelcard is on the Oyster card then there is no need to touch in as long as you have a ticket to take you into zone 6. As the travelcard is a season and the other ticket isn't there should be no need for the train to stop at the boundary.
     
  12. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorry, I was thinking he was using PAYG as he said he needed to touch in. Looking at the opening post, he says he has a Travelcard, though it is not clear if this is a Season or not. If it is, then of course there is no need to touch in, and as the tickets combine under Condition 19 so the train does not need to call at the station where he changes from one ticket to the next (which, for example, could be Harrow & Wealdstone, but he is doubly covered between Hatch End & Willesden Jn).
     
  13. tannedfrog

    tannedfrog Member

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    Yes it's a zone 1 - 6 monthly Travelcard on Oyster

    But Watford Junction is not in these zones so I thought if I touch in I would pay a supplement on the Oyster card

    In an ideal world I would stay on the Virgin train all the way to Euston - are you saying that my "Not London" paper ticket will cover me from Sandwell to boundary zone 6 and let me stay on until Euston?
     
  14. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Thanks for clarifying. Had I realised that I would have said to simply stay on the train in the first place!
    But your ticket isn't to Watford Jn? You have a ticket to Kensington Olympia, which covers you on the WCML as far as Willesden Jn. Your Travelcard is valid between Hatch End and Euston. You are doubly covered between Hatch End & Willesden Jn.
    The paper ticket is valid as far as Willesden Jn. The Travelcard is valid from Hatch End. There are a lot of stations at which both tickets are valid.


     
  15. tannedfrog

    tannedfrog Member

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    Thank you - this is really good news. I don't for a minute dispute it but how do you know that the paper ticket is valid as far as Willesden Junction?

    I guess that the opposite should also work - if I tried to go from Euston to Sandwell with a monthly Oyster travelcard, and a "not London" ticket in my hand, I would expect to need to argue with the ticket staff on the platform though
     
  16. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The route the paper ticket is valid on is determined by the National Routeing Guide, which defines what is and is not a permitted route for a particular ticket.
     
  17. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You'd only be arguing if they were unknowledgeable. Any problems, pay the excess and make a note of the person who isn't accepting the valid combination and PM me the details, I'll assist you in drafting up a letter, which Virgin Customer Services will take very seriously indeed, and get you a full refund (plus perhaps a little more) and suitable advice will be given to the member of staff who argued with you and charged you.

    I very much doubt Virgin would be wanting to repeat this unfortunate incident (and if they didn't know the rules then, they do now!) - you could print off the result of that case if you like.
     
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