London to Windsor (using both routes)

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MidnightFlyer

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Waterloo-Windsor & Eton Riverside - £9.10 Standard Day Single
Windsor & Eton Central-Paddington - £9.00 Standard Day Single

(Same fares apply if journey is done Paddington-Waterloo.)
 
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dzug2

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The route out of Paddington is built up all the way, near enough. From Waterloo only most of the way but still probably the most scenic.

Is it possible to excess a day return out of Paddington to return to Waterloo by paying half the difference in fare?
 

wintonian

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The route out of Paddington is built up all the way, near enough. From Waterloo only most of the way but still probably the most scenic.

Is it possible to excess a day return out of Paddington to return to Waterloo by paying half the difference in fare?
Yep you can go out one way and return the other by doing a change of route excess which will cost you 5p or 0p depending on which way round you do it.

Riverside is a very nice station and closer to the Castle etc. if that helps.
 

tony_mac

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There is an 'easement' saying that you can't go from Riverside via Central, but the eastcoast journey planner (for example) allows it.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Ah, yes, an excess totally slipped my mind. I'll leave the prices up for reference, but remove my advice.

EDIT - Can't post the day return prices ATM, but IIRC they are approx £10.50 I think.
 

Dan_Lockton

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Yep you can go out one way and return the other by doing a change of route excess which will cost you 5p or 0p depending on which way round you do it.
Could you tell me where it's possible to pay this excess? I presume it needs to be done before the return leg of the journey, but is it possible to pay the excess right at the start (i.e. before the outbound leg) to allow total flexibility for the return leg? If it really is only a maximum of 5p, it seems like it would be worth it, unless I'm misunderstanding what the scope of the excess means.

Are there any TVMs (e.g. at Waterloo or Paddington) that sell this kind of excess?

I ask as someone who often buys a Z1-6 Day Travelcard from either Windsor & Eton Riverside or Windsor & Eton Central, and would love to be able to find a cheaper way of having the flexibility to return the other way. I got some very helpful answers on this thread before, after reading about the easement (thank you to forum members) but the 5p excess possibility adds a tantalising twist!

To Harlesden - the route from Waterloo is somehwat prettier overall, particularly when crossing the Thames at Richmond, but the last part of the journey from Paddington, between Slough and Windsor, also gives wonderful views over the Thames, Eton and the Castle.
 
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wintonian

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Firstly the excess is 55p or 0p (I was thinking MatE2010 was quoting return fares when he wasn't)

If going to Windsor & Eaton Riverside first it will be 55p to return via Central as London terminals to Central has a higher fare, so if going the other way round and visiting Central first the excess will be 0p to return via Eaton & riverside as you will have already paid a higher fare.

This can be done at the ticket office or on board the train.
 

bb21

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The excess is not applicable as fares are not issued to Windsor & Eton Stns but to named stations respectively.

I believe that

London Terminals - Datchet
Route Any Permitted
Off-Peak Day Return
£10.60 Restriction US

is valid either way due to the 3-mile rule.

Distance calculation:

(Table 149) London Waterloo - Staines: 19 miles
(Table 149) Staines - Datchet: 4.75 miles

Total: 23.75 miles

(Table 116) London Paddington - Slough: 18.5 miles
(Table 119) Slough - Windsor & Eton Central: 2.75 miles
(Table 149) Windsor & Eton Riverside - Datchet: 2 miles

Total: 23.25 miles
 

wintonian

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Are you sure that circumvents both easements 700084 and 700085?
The shortest route (or within 3 miles of) and direct trains are always valid.

In other words the validity of the above cannot be overridden, expect possibly by a restriction that appears on the ticket (?)
 

David Goddard

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Just keyed "London" to "Datchet" return into the SWT website, and it returned both routes as valid options.
Therefore you should have no problem with the return fares of £16.60 anytime or £10.60 Off Peak.

The excess is not applicable as fares are not issued to Windsor & Eton Stns but to named stations respectively.
Now, try entering "London Waterloo" to "Windsor & Eton Central" and "via Datchet"
Journey planner gives a return fare as low as £9.50.

This ticket will be printed "London Terminals" so would also be valid either way.
 
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Dan_Lockton

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Now, try entering "London Waterloo" to "Windsor & Eton Central" and "via Datchet"
Journey planner gives a return fare as low as £9.50.

This ticket will be printed "London Terminals" so would also be valid either way.
Thanks everyone for some very useful insights. Presumably I could buy a Datchet - London Terminals ticket online and collect it from the machines at either Windsor station.

The idea raises three questions though for me:

1) Would it be permitted to start the journey 'short' of Datchet, i.e. travelling on a Datchet - London Terminals ticket but starting at Windsor & Eton Central and going into Paddington that way?

Or is that a non-permitted break of journey - would one be legally required to have boarded a train at Datchet, alighted at Windsor & Eton Riverside and then walked to Windsor & Eton Central?

2) If the ticket were from Datchet - London Terminals return, but the outward journey were actually just Windsor & Eton Central to Paddington, would a return journey via Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside be invalid once the train reached Datchet? Or would the 'unused' Datchet to Windsor & Eton Riverside portion from the outward journey be acceptable for that remaining portion of the journey?

3) Would any of this work with a Z1-6 Travelcard as well, or would it only be for wholly National Rail tickets?
 

MikeWh

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Thanks everyone for some very useful insights. Presumably I could buy a Datchet - London Terminals ticket online and collect it from the machines at either Windsor station.

The idea raises three questions though for me:

1) Would it be permitted to start the journey 'short' of Datchet, i.e. travelling on a Datchet - London Terminals ticket but starting at Windsor & Eton Central and going into Paddington that way?

Or is that a non-permitted break of journey - would one be legally required to have boarded a train at Datchet, alighted at Windsor & Eton Riverside and then walked to Windsor & Eton Central?

2) If the ticket were from Datchet - London Terminals return, but the outward journey were actually just Windsor & Eton Central to Paddington, would a return journey via Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside be invalid once the train reached Datchet? Or would the 'unused' Datchet to Windsor & Eton Riverside portion from the outward journey be acceptable for that remaining portion of the journey?

3) Would any of this work with a Z1-6 Travelcard as well, or would it only be for wholly National Rail tickets?
1) Break of journey is no problem on these tickets, but ...
2) This is a problem. You can only use the outward portion providing that the return portion is completely unused. This is fine for London to Datchet breaking either way at Windsor, but not to start from and return to Windsor.
3) An out boundary travelcard would work as well as a return, but the bits outside zone 6 would suffer from the same problems as (2).
 

bb21

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Now, try entering "London Waterloo" to "Windsor & Eton Central" and "via Datchet"
Journey planner gives a return fare as low as £9.50.
Journey planners are not always correct with regard to the interpretation of the Routeing Guide. However if you print out the itinerary offered and stick rigidly to it ...

Presumably I could buy a Datchet - London Terminals ticket online and collect it from the machines at either Windsor station.
Correct.

1) Would it be permitted to start the journey 'short' of Datchet, i.e. travelling on a Datchet - London Terminals ticket but starting at Windsor & Eton Central and going into Paddington that way?

Or is that a non-permitted break of journey - would one be legally required to have boarded a train at Datchet, alighted at Windsor & Eton Riverside and then walked to Windsor & Eton Central?
There is no break of journey restriction on this ticket.

2) If the ticket were from Datchet - London Terminals return, but the outward journey were actually just Windsor & Eton Central to Paddington, would a return journey via Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside be invalid once the train reached Datchet? Or would the 'unused' Datchet to Windsor & Eton Riverside portion from the outward journey be acceptable for that remaining portion of the journey?
You cannot use the outbound portion after you have used the return portion.

Your ticket ceases to be valid once you have returned to Datchet.

3) Would any of this work with a Z1-6 Travelcard as well, or would it only be for wholly National Rail tickets?
Do you mean a Datchet - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard? If so then it works the same way as described above. The ticket will cease to be valid once you get back to Datchet, so you will need to purchase a separate single ticket for Datchet - Windsor & Eton Riverside should you wish to continue there.
 

Dan_Lockton

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Thanks MikeWH and bb21 - those are very clear explanations!

So, if I understand this right, it looks like, as long as the tickets are used in the 'right' order, a single from Windsor & Eton Riverside to Datchet or vice versa (£2.10 according to NRE) plus a Datchet to London Terminals return (£12.70 off peak) would effectively have the same validity as buying a single from Windsor & Eton Riverside to Waterloo (£9.10 off peak) plus a single from Paddington to Windsor & Eton Central (£9.00 off peak). £14.80 vs £18.10.

Interesting. That's not a massive price difference, but over time it would add up.
 
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bb21

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So, if I understand this right, it looks like, as long as the tickets are used in the 'right' order, a single from Windsor & Eton Riverside to Datchet or vice versa (£2.10 according to NRE) plus a Datchet to London Terminals return (£12.70 off peak) would effectively have the same validity as buying a single from Windsor & Eton Riverside to Waterloo (£9.10 off peak) plus a single from Paddington to Windsor & Eton Central (£9.00 off peak). £14.80 vs £18.10.
Almost. It doesn't matter really if you intend to travel outside rush hour.

If you intend to travel during rush hour, then you need to consider the restrictions applied to the Off-Peak Day Return fare, which for the Datchet - London Terminals ticket takes restriction US. It means you are not permitted to travel at certain times of the day.

The two single fares you have quoted are both Anytime Day Singles, which means that you can use them at any time during the day of validity.

The Datchet - London Terminals Anytime Day Return will set you back £17.00, which, with the additional £2.10 added for a Datchet - Windsor & Eton Riverside (or in the other direction) Anytime Day Single, will total £19.10 - more expensive than two singles if you start and finish at Windsor & Eton Riverside.
 

johnnychips

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Strange, I was thinking of visiting Windsor this Saturday, so I won't open a new thread. I already have a Z1-6 Travelcard, and the boundaries seem to be at West Drayton for W Central and Feltham for W Riverside.

Here's the question: would I be able to buy a day return from the guard on the train between the boundary points and Windsor (like I would on TPE) or would I get done for not having a ticket, and have to buy this at Paddington or Waterloo before I got on to avoid this. No idea which companies operate them or what their regs are.
 

David Goddard

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Strange, I was thinking of visiting Windsor this Saturday, so I won't open a new thread. I already have a Z1-6 Travelcard, and the boundaries seem to be at West Drayton for W Central and Feltham for W Riverside.

Here's the question: would I be able to buy a day return from the guard on the train between the boundary points and Windsor (like I would on TPE) or would I get done for not having a ticket, and have to buy this at Paddington or Waterloo before I got on to avoid this. No idea which companies operate them or what their regs are.
You would need to purchase from the ticket office before commencing your journey, as ticket purchase facilities exist at the boarding point in London. Based on my research earlier, you would need to ask for an extension to Central if wanting to use both routes.
 

johnnychips

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You would need to purchase from the ticket office before commencing your journey, as ticket purchase facilities exist at the boarding point in London. Based on my research earlier, you would need to ask for an extension to Central if wanting to use both routes.
Thanks a lot David, will do. I wasn't thinking of a round tour like the OP.
 

bb21

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You would need to purchase from the ticket office before commencing your journey, as ticket purchase facilities exist at the boarding point in London. Based on my research earlier, you would need to ask for an extension to Central if wanting to use both routes.
Can I ask on what basis is

Boundary Zone 6 - Windsor & Eton Central
Route Any Permitted
Anytime/Off-Peak Day Return

valid for travel via Windsor & Eton Riverside?
 

Dan_Lockton

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Almost. It doesn't matter really if you intend to travel outside rush hour.
Thanks for the clarifications.

I can imagine situations late at night rushing to catch the last train back from Paddington or Waterloo where actually knowing that I already have a ticket valid either route could probably be worth a few pounds extra to me. So I do need to give the various options some more thought!
 

SWT_USER

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Right I've had a little play on the 'net and I'm still not sure if this is acceptable or not so I'll ask the experts;

On Saturday I will have a zone 1-6 YP discounted travelcard. I'm going out to Windsor in the evening and will be in SWT territory so will head out to Windsor ER station. Going home I'll want to go from Central via Slough.

Is a BZ6 > Windsor ER return valid for travel back via Central? From what I can tell it is because later in the evening some of the booking sites tell you to walk from ER to Central, but I know from past experience the booking sites can be wrong!
 

bb21

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Is a BZ6 > Windsor ER return valid for travel back via Central?
Not as far as I know, due to the lack of a Windsor & Eton Stations designation, and the existence of Easement 700084 which, some might argue does not apply as it is a boundary zone ticket.

From what I can tell it is because later in the evening some of the booking sites tell you to walk from ER to Central, but I know from past experience the booking sites can be wrong!
They could be, but they should be honoured if the itinerary is printed out and carried with you. The difficulty is that boundary zone tickets are not available online.

You might want to consider a Boundary Zone 6 - Datchet ticket, which is valid either way around the Windsor loop, as it satisfies the 3-mile rule, whether you use the distance to Waterloo/Paddington as the measure or the distance to Feltham/West Drayton (last station in Zone 6).
 

johnnychips

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You would need to purchase from the ticket office before commencing your journey, as ticket purchase facilities exist at the boarding point in London. Based on my research earlier, you would need to ask for an extension to Central if wanting to use both routes.
Just a quick 'thank you' to David for that. I bought my Boundary 6-Windsor ER ticket at Clapham Junc before I got on and two RPIs got on at Staines.
 
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