Related mayoral answer for those interested in the technicalities
More https://www.theyworkforyou.com/london/?id=2022-02-18.0284.h&p=11878#g0284.r0
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London Travelcards at risk
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The rest of the quote answers the question about the alternative as well and why it is felt acceptable to withdraw the travelcard, especially once PAYG is extended to a wider area.
bakerstreet
Member
I do wonder if this will lose TfL money.
My reasoning is that pre Oyster I would never buy single or day return tickets if making a journey without a season; I’d always buy a one day travelcard.
Once I’m out it was the encouragement I needed to make a day of it, and it felt like a brilliant deal. Everything after my return to work was a free bonus.
A one day travelcard costs more than a return on oyster for the regular journeys I make.
So my buying a travelcard makes TfL money.
Even the daily Oyster cap is less than the cost of a travelcard
With no travelcard in future, I will decide as the day goes on what I will spend. I almost certainly will spend less with TfL.
Possibly they don’t care and that this will overall save them money.
But I can’t help thinking, even if they wanted to ditch paper travelcards, if they advertised a pre purchase all day ticket, loaded to Oyster, perhaps one only on TfL, where they got all the income, like the LT card, which was a bit less than the TfL/NR cap, that you committed to prior to travel, their income may increase.
It could be purchased on the app and picked up on Oyster touch in
Or introduce TfL only daily weekly and monthly caps in addition to the current TfL/NR caps. Again more money for TfL.
No uncertainty how much you’d spend, encourage more journeys on TfL, market to tourists and others, possibly help London’s economy by people exploring more.
(Mods - not sure if this should be a separate thread but it is related to the above)
It's an irony that the concept of travelcards (small 't') originated from London Transport with Red and Twin Rovers, eventually becoming Travelcards that only included what is now LU and Central Buses, before NSE/National Rail were persuaded to join. Now it seems that TfL can't get out of the combined ticket quick enough.
The only want to get out of the paper version. In their view Contactless / Oyster offers the same thing in a format the vast majority of their passengers prefer (even if a reasonable minority don't).
There is a pretext here that TfL would like a situation where all travel on their services is on Oyster or Contactless. It is not hard to see why, from TfL's point of view, that is desirable.
Had the investment been made in a contactless card that could hold many tickets ( a core issue with ITSO is only capable of holding a few - 5? ) and worked right across the UK heavy rail network, all light rail networks and at least most buses ( all except remote / rural services by small operators and services that only operate once or twice a week ) then eliminating the paper Travelcard and hence the magnetic strip system would inconvenience far fewer users. One specific issue eliminated is ' maltese cross ' tickets that include cross London travel and one day Travelcards issued beyond the limits of London underground, overground and buses.
paul1609
Established Member
One day outboundary travelcards on the key from Kent & Sussex have worked fine accross London for some years now. With key go PAYG I don't really see why you would need 5 rail tickets on one card.
To reply at the risk of being OT here is a very realistic possibility
- local area to home weekly / monthly bus ticket
- rail season ticket
- local area to work weekly / monthly bus ticket
- split tickets for a spontaneous day out, even this presumes day two returns are two tickets not four
These are 5 tickets
Now add outward and return advances for two planned days out bought when released and a day bus ticket for the destination and you have another 5 tickets so a total of 10.
This page from a TfL report published today is interesting in terms of the declining (weekday) use of travelcards
Gerald Fiennes
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Somewhat amusingly, the hyperlink in the 'theyworkforyou' link above to 'The Agreement' (implying the restated TfL/Rail Operators agreement) actually links to the Good Friday Agreement....!
Sort of ups the ante on what might done on Travelcards....
More seriously, should we remind the TfL statisticians that it's not too surprising that use of Travelcards has dropped disproportionately (just as with all weekly and upwards season tickets). Until the working population is back on a 5 day/week schedule (years off...?), that's bound to be what happens: the PAYG capping effectively gives one a free option on the 7 day Travelcard price (if one starts one's week on a Monday) but without the need to pay up if one only uses it on c. 3 days/week. So no need to commit to a Travelcard in advance.
A bit like the Home Secretary proclaiming the drop in home burglaries during lockdown as a major achievement...
Also people have believed in TfL's marketing that contactless PAYG+capping will always give them the cheapest fares - which is true in many cases - and most people for whom a travelcard would be marginal probably can't be bothered or have the patience/capacity to do the research and calculations to predict whether a travelcard will actually be cheaper.
When I had an irregular communting pattern, including times and zones, I spent hours working out exactly what dates and zones of travelcard would be needed, for only a few pounds of savings per month compared to a random guess. Mon-Sun capping would probably provide half of the savings but require zero time.
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