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London trip and travelcard add on

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Razor1967

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I am going on holiday with the family and whilst away I want to take a trip into London and see some of the sights. On Wed 10/3/2010 my intention is to catch the 08.40 from Whitstable to arrive in London Victoria at 10.07. I want to return to pass Hoo Junction yard (as I need this line) and hope to catch the 19.47 from London Bridge to Gillingham (arr 20.59) and change for 21.17 to arrive at Whistable at 21.51. There are 2 adults and 3 children travelling on a Family Railcard. Trying to get the info from a train website is difficult as it keeps trying to give me direct trains, HS1 (which I don't want to go on as more expensive). Southeasterns own website won't even quote me more than 4 passengers (surely a mistake).
My questions are;

(1) According to my research the One day off-peak return All zones London Travelcard at £46.80 is the best fare for all of us. Is this correct ?

(2) I'm a bit ignorant but I assume the All zones Travelcard will get us to London and back and allow us to jump on any overground/underground train in up to zone 5(the max zone we intend to visit) after 9.30am, a bit like the one day travelcard you can buy. It only costs an extra £6 over the normal day return to London, so it appears to be a bargain. Or am I missing something !!

(3) Are the routes I intend to take valid on the off-peak ticket, especially the return trip as I have real difficulty getting a site to give me a train from London to Whitstable via Hoo junction, it keeps giving me quicker/other alternatives, which is nice, but not what I want !!

(4) Finally (honest !), I assume I can buy the ticket without specifying a train for the fare of £46.80, because on the website you had to highlight the train you want, which is fine to generate the fare, but I just want the off-peak ticket and not want the trains times printed on the ticket (like the advance fares do), because our plans could change and we could get an earlier/later train back.

Sorry to waffle on, but you ticket experts are great on here and I don't want any trouble from the guards or have my ticket swallowed in some machine in London. Many thanks in advance for your assistance !
 
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yorkie

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1) I think so

2) Travelcards are valid from 0930 to (I believe) 0200 the next morning for unlimited journeys within the Zones. Yes, it can be a bit of a bargain! :)

3) Probably. There are all sorts of routeings available in the Routeing Guide. The maps show the full routeings available but they're usually extremely extensive, particularly in the London area. Someone may study all the maps in detail and reply if they have time.

4) Advance fares are not available for journeys from Whitstable to London. The only available fares are walk-on tickets, which permit travel on any train within the time restrictions that apply to the ticket. In this case, "By any train scheduled to arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 1000".

Travelcards should never be swallowed, but in the unlikely event that they are, ask the gateline assistant to get it back for you. It's only happened to me once, ever.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'll look at the valid routeing now...

Section B shows that Whitstable has 2 routeing points, the applicable one is Faversham (as the fare to Ramsgate is too high).

Section C shows that routes on the following maps are valid:

DV+VC
HK
LD
LR
LR+SL
NK

That's a lot of maps! :)

The maps can be seen here http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide/maps.pdf

or individually here http://www.atoc.org/rsp/_downloads/Routeing_Guide/Maps.asp
 

John @ home

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On Wed 10/3/2010 my intention is to catch the 08.40 from Whitstable to arrive in London Victoria at 10.07. I want to return to pass Hoo Junction yard (as I need this line) and hope to catch the 19.47 from London Bridge to Gillingham (arr 20.59) and change for 21.17 to arrive at Whistable at 21.51. There are 2 adults and 3 children travelling on a Family Railcard. ... According to my research the One day off-peak return All zones London Travelcard at £46.80 is the best fare for all of us. Is this correct?
Yes, but my calculations come to £46.70.
National Fares Manual NFM 05 CD said:
Origin : WHITSTABLE
Destination : LONDON ZONES 1-6
Route : 00130 - NOT VALID ON HS1
ODT - OFF-PEAK DAY TRAVELCARD STANDARD
Discount : FAMILY & FRIENDS RAILCARD
2 Adults @£ 16.30 = £ 32.60
3 Children @£ 4.70 = £ 14.10
Total £ 46.70
I assume the All zones Travelcard will get us to London and back and allow us to jump on any overground/underground train in up to zone 5(the max zone we intend to visit) after 9.30am, a bit like the one day travelcard you can buy. It only costs an extra £6 over the normal day return to London, so it appears to be a bargain.
Yes. As shown by the Destination printed on the ticket, it's valid throughout London Zones 1-6.
Are the routes I intend to take valid on the off-peak ticket
Yes. The technical stuff from the Routeing Guide is:
The routeing points for Whitstable are Faversham and Ramsgate Group.
London Group is a routeing point.
London - Ramsgate fares are more than London - Whitstable; London - Faversham are less. So Faversham is Whitstable's appropriate routeing point for this journey.
Permitted routes for London - Faversham are on maps DV+VC, HK, LD, LR, LR+SL and NK.
Map NK allows London Bridge - Dartford (by several routes) - Gravesend - (Hoo Jn) - Chatham - Faversham. Specifically, it allows London Bridge - Lewisham - Blackheath - Woolwich Arsenal - Erith - Slade Green - Dartford - Gravesend - (Hoo Jn) - Chatham - Gillingham (Kent), which is the route taken by the 1947 from London Bridge.
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide/
I have real difficulty getting a site to give me a train from London to Whitstable via Hoo junction, it keeps giving me quicker/other alternatives, which is nice, but not what I want
The East Coast site gives the return trains you want if you specify Whitstable (WHI) to London Zones 1-6 (0035) via Woolwich Arsenal (WWA), but it suggests changing at Chatham instead of Gillingham to avoid a change of platform.
I assume I can buy the ticket without specifying a train for the fare of £46.80, because on the website you had to highlight the train you want, which is fine to generate the fare, but I just want the off-peak ticket and not want the trains times printed on the ticket (like the advance fares do), because our plans could change and we could get an earlier/later train back.
Yes. Train times are not printed on the tickets, which will look a bit like this. There is no financial benefit in buying these tickets in advance. I would be inclined to buy from Whitstable ticket office (open Monday-Friday 06:10-19:00) on the day of travel in case plans change because there is a £10 refund fee per ticket.
 

Razor1967

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2 Feb 2009
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127
Location
York
Thank you both for your prompt and very informative replies. Your'e both far better than the official rail websites !!
Still cannot understand why my own local website, Eatcoast trains, give better information than the "home" website, Southeast trains, which won't even quote me a fare as cannot have more than 4 passengers, which is complete rubbish.

Thanks once again !
 
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