London Underground parallel fast and stopping sections

[silverfoxcc]

Why not bring back the Finchley Rd-Harrow non stops ( misty eyed with The loco hauled in the early 60's compartment stock, jumpers for goalposts....)

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Why not bring back the Finchley Rd-Harrow non stops ( misty eyed with The loco hauled in the early 60's compartment stock, jumpers for goalposts....)

well if it was loco hauled you'd certainly be misty eyed... from all the soot and smoke

 

[MarlowDonkey]

well if it was loco hauled you'd certainly be misty eyed... from all the soot and smoke

Met electric locos, think Sarah Siddons.

 

[philthetube]

Why not bring back the Finchley Rd-Harrow non stops ( misty eyed with The loco hauled in the early 60's compartment stock, jumpers for goalposts....)

You still get Harrow, Finchley Rd non stops in the morning.

 

[Statto]

You still get Harrow, Finchley Rd non stops in the morning.

You get them in the evening as well, was on a non stopper around 6pm last year.

 

[simple simon]

before the Piccadilly Line was built there were only two tracks from Acton Town to Turnham Green junction where the LNWR joined from Richmond and occupied the two northern tracks. These fell into disuse hence they were re-used during the four-tracking works from Hammersmith to Acton.

The LSWR comes into this somehow... my thoughts are that the LSWR built the link to the West London Line which formed the northern pair of tracks and includes the now disused remains of a viaduct between the eastbound District and Piccadilly lines.

At one time (in the days of steam trains!) no less than five competing railway companies served Kew Gardens station, these being the LSWR, LNWR, District, Metropolitan and GWR. The latter two travelled to Kew Gardens via the route that used the viaduct. The District had its own pair of tracks to the south of the route that used the former viaduct.

Nowadays of course the LNWR service is operated by London Overground and the District service by London Underground.

 

[bluegoblin7]

You get them in the evening as well, was on a non stopper around 6pm last year.

None are booked in the evening but they can happen on any day at any time as part of service recovery options.

 

[AM9]

... The Overground connection could certainly be useful, I'm not sure how many people would actually change from the Met to Thameslink though?

There would be some demand for travel from Metroland to Gatwick, East Croydon, HS1 & Crossrail eastbound (via Farringdon). Not a torrent but a substantial flow to add to all the other interchanges.

I can't speak for the Piccadilly but I was a reasonably regular traveller into London from Stanmore when visiting relatives in the 70s and 80s. With the possible exception of late nights when the service was thinner, if you changed to the Met at Wembley Park you would always overtake at least two Bakerloo/Jubilee trains - the one you'd got off and the one before. With the line speed, acceleration and braking rates of the Underground, 1min loss of time would be typical for a station stop on a maximum speed section, compared to running through at line speed. Could it be that the Piccadilly at Acton Town was the one after the one after the one that started from Hammersmith at the same time?

I think there is a perception that the differencetube stock in travelling time is negligible as you say mainly that virtuallt all LU trains of a type look identical unless one is gathering numbers. The Met/Jubilee situation is different to the District/Piccadilly in that the 'S' trains probably have a faster acceleration U cruising speed than the ageing '73 stock whereas the '96 stock is closer in performance on acceleration to the 'S's.

 

[Bald Rick]

There would be some demand for travel from Metroland to Gatwick, East Croydon, HS1 & Crossrail eastbound (via Farringdon). Not a torrent but a substantial flow to add to all the other interchanges.

Not sure about that. Firstly there is no peak service from West Hampstead to Gatwick / Croydon etc, and only 2 tph off peak. Met line passengers would be far more likely to change for these at St Pancras, where the service is much more frequent. Similarly for HS1 and Farringdon, I can’t see many people wanting to change twice, where staying on the met is just one change.

 

[AM9]

... I can’t see many people wanting to change twice, where staying on the met is just one change.

Apart from the Baker St terminators.

 

[Railguy1]

Not sure about that. Firstly there is no peak service from West Hampstead to Gatwick / Croydon etc, and only 2 tph off peak. Met line passengers would be far more likely to change for these at St Pancras, where the service is much more frequent. Similarly for HS1 and Farringdon, I can’t see many people wanting to change twice, where staying on the met is just one change.

Today there is a 17:39, 17:54 and an 18:24 direct service to Croydon. The 17:39 and the 18:24 continue onto Gatwick.

 

[Bald Rick]

Today there is a 17:39, 17:54 and an 18:24 direct service to Croydon. The 17:39 and the 18:24 continue onto Gatwick.

Apologies, I meant morning peak

 

[Bald Rick]

Apart from the Baker St terminators.

But typically, people would wait the 2 minutes at origin for the next Aldgate, or do a same platform at Finchley Rd, rather than run the gauntlet of West End Lane

 

[philthetube]

I think there is a perception that the differencetube stock in travelling time is negligible as you say mainly that virtuallt all LU trains of a type look identical unless one is gathering numbers. The Met/Jubilee situation is different to the District/Piccadilly in that the 'S' trains probably have a faster acceleration U cruising speed than the ageing '73 stock whereas the '96 stock is closer in performance on acceleration to the 'S's.

There is quite a big difference in time between Finchley Rd and Baker St, (5 mins +) Between the Met and Jubilee services, despite the jubilee haveing far superior acceleration, (until ATO appears on the Met.

 

[Taunton]

There was a proposal, not sure how official, probably in the 1960s for a rebuilt combined station at West Hampstead incorporating all these lines, and transferring the Met stop from Finchley Road. Being pre-Out Station Oyster Interchange it was all together, and all on the same side of West End Lnne. There was more space to do this than now, 50 years later.

John Betjeman, who had long known the locality, wrote about the stations in his eloquent style about the same time. He observed the Tube station, Bakerloo then, with trains every few minutes was busy. Niorth London line, every 20 minutes, had a smaller flow. Midland suburban line, only served hourly with then-new diesel units, often paused quite fruitlessly.

 

[Bald Rick]

There was a proposal, not sure how official, probably in the 1960s for a rebuilt combined station at West Hampstead incorporating all these lines, and transferring the Met stop from Finchley Road. Being pre-Out Station Oyster Interchange it was all together, and all on the same side of West End Lnne. There was more space to do this than now, 50 years later.

John Betjeman, who had long known the locality, wrote about the stations in his eloquent style about the same time. He observed the Tube station, Bakerloo then, with trains every few minutes was busy. Niorth London line, every 20 minutes, had a smaller flow. Midland suburban line, only served hourly with then-new diesel units, often paused quite fruitlessly.

Very, very different now!

It will be interesting to see what happens post Crossrail, as there is a reasonable flow MML - Canary Wharf that should swap to changing at Farringdon. Nevertheless, I can still see a time when West End Lane becomes pedestrianised.

 

[etr221]

There was a proposal, not sure how official, probably in the 1960s for a rebuilt combined station at West Hampstead incorporating all these lines, and transferring the Met stop from Finchley Road. Being pre-Out Station Oyster Interchange it was all together, and all on the same side of West End Lnne. There was more space to do this than now, 50 years later.

John Betjeman, who had long known the locality, wrote about the stations in his eloquent style about the same time. He observed the Tube station, Bakerloo then, with trains every few minutes was busy. Niorth London line, every 20 minutes, had a smaller flow. Midland suburban line, only served hourly with then-new diesel units, often paused quite fruitlessly.

Very, very different now!

It will be interesting to see what happens post Crossrail, as there is a reasonable flow MML - Canary Wharf that should swap to changing at Farringdon. Nevertheless, I can still see a time when West End Lane becomes pedestrianised.

Something I came across, as a link from elsewhere, http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/documents/get_lob?id=4376&age=&field=file , has, at slide 37, someone's proposal for a unified station at West Hampstead, c2004. Unfortunately the explanatory narrative for the slides is elsewhere...

 

[Mikey C]

Very, very different now!

It will be interesting to see what happens post Crossrail, as there is a reasonable flow MML - Canary Wharf that should swap to changing at Farringdon. Nevertheless, I can still see a time when West End Lane becomes pedestrianised.

I can't see that happening, West End Lane is too important a road connection (including for buses) and there are no obvious alternatives. Indeed a lot of people travel to West Hampstead by bus to change onto rail services

 

[Bald Rick]

I can't see that happening, West End Lane is too important a road connection (including for buses) and there are no obvious alternatives. Indeed a lot of people travel to West Hampstead by bus to change onto rail services

That’s what ‘they’ said about Bank...

It won’t be soon, but I can see it happening. Perhaps as Bus only.

 

[jumble]

None are booked in the evening but they can happen on any day at any time as part of service recovery options.

How about 472D leaving Uxbridge 17.59 which seems to be semi fast?
HTH Jumble

 

[bluegoblin7]

How about 472D leaving Uxbridge 17.59 which seems to be semi fast?
HTH Jumble

Still booked to stop at Wembley Park south, which was the specific aspect being discussed.

(And reading back, for the avoidance of doubt, nothing non-stops Harrow-on-the-Hill or Finchley Road under any circumstances, and nothing is booked to non-stop Wembley on the North.)

 

[Dstock7080]

How about 472D leaving Uxbridge 17.59 which seems to be semi fast?
HTH Jumble

Still booked to stop at Wembley Park south, which was the specific aspect being discussed.

I hate to disagree but T431 17.42 ex-Amersham and T472 17.59 ex-Uxbridge non-stop Wembley Park (at 18.18 and 18.27 respectively)