London underground strike

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by gavin, 18 Jun 2015.

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  1. Tom B

    Tom B Established Member

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    I certainly think it unfair that TfL refuse to refund passengers who are disrupted. This is especially galling when, to try and avoid embarrassment, they put up statuses like "severe delays due to non availability of staff" or "severe delays due to overcrowding" when these are side-effects of strike action.

    The passenger has been delayed due to TfL being unable to run services because insufficient staff turned up to work. It is the responsibility of TfL to arrange sufficient staff to run services. Any issue between TfL and its staff is not an issue for the passenger - the passenger should be entitled to a refund if his journey is delayed.
     
  2. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    industrial negotiations concerning groups like train drivers, doctors, firemen etc, should be available for public viewing, that way there would be no doubt as to what the dispute was about, if anyone was backtracking on promises and if either side was being unreasonable
    .
     
  3. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    I agree but only to a point. People won't read this info, they will read the bits of the info that the right wing Murdoch owned anti union press want them to read. It won't make much difference.
     
  4. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    If negotiations were make public there are plenty of people such as London Reconnections, Huffington Post and the rail press to cause sufficient trouble. People holding these sort of positions, (management or union) cannot afford to be caught lying by the public. Politicians cannot afford to be seen employing managers who cause disputes and if union leaders/negotiators are seen to be unnecessarily costing their members money they will not be re-elected
     
  5. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    None of those publications you describe, even combined, have even a fraction of the readership or 'believer-ship' (made up word but you get my drift!) of an individual publication like the sun, times, mail, standard, metro or sky news etc...it wouldn't begin to scratch the surface. Nice suggestion but won't work in the way you suggest.
     
  6. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Newspapers don't lie, they merely tell you which part of the truth they want you to know, just because they omit to tell you half the story doesnt mean they are lying does it!
     
  7. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Absolutely. One of the biggest 'fibs' of the August strikes was the report that tube drivers would be asked to work 'on average' 7 extra nights a year. The entire population went round saying "no big deal, they need to get over themselves" etc.

    The truth is that that average took the number of night shifts needed for night tube and divided them amongst all 2-3000 drivers TfL employ and came up with 7. Considering only about a quarter of lines are going to run 24hr at this point it means 3/4s of drivers won't work ANY extra nights so straight away those 7 nights become closer to 30. Add in that (what the unions wanted all along to know but TfL point blank refused to discuss) there was no agreement to share out all work equally amongst depots you could find only 1 northern line depot, for example, picking up 100% of the extra night work meaning it effectively becomes an entirely night shift depot.

    But hey, people believed the press that TfL only wanted an extra 7 nights a year per driver!

    And then there is the extra money. The unions never started discussing money. But TfL offered the original bonus without being asked. The unions had to reject the entire deal as TfL wouldn't negotiate on individual points and so ended up being forced to reject the money part to. TfL offered even more money in the next deal but all other points (which were originally rejected) were the same. Once again the unions were forced to reject that. The press once again had a field day as they could say the unions had rejected £259 (I think that's roughly the original figure) and then closer to 2k. The truth is the money wasn't being rejected and they didn't want any more. They wanted the other points addressed which TfL refused to do.
     
  8. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Just as a matter of interest, I wonder how many people really read the newspapers nowadays - possibly nothing like as many as some years ago ?

    For news, my family/friends seem to watch the TV (BBC, ITV or loads of others), or listen to the radio (BBC or local independents).

    I'm not questioning that Murdoch owns a lot of media, I just wonder how much of an impact he really makes nowadays.
     
  9. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    The only slight shift in readership is from physical newspapers to online subscriptions and tablet editions.
     
  10. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    I know plenty of people who still buy newspapers, and a large proportion of those still believe that what they read in them is the absolute truth.
     
  11. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Yes, I know plenty too but my query was whether it was as many as in days gone by.
     
  12. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A lot of it might well be the absolute truth. It's just not usually the whole truth and I think in many cases that's the main issue ;)
     
  13. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    I think that given the way the web has impacted on our lives, I think it's pretty clear that fewer people read newspapers now than before the internet age.

    Is there a difference between absolute truth and whole truth? Maybe I chose the wrong one if there is :lol:
     
  14. chris11256

    chris11256 Member

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    I've just read that Unite have suspended strike action while talks are taking place. No word from aslef or the RMT yet.
     
  15. Tubeboy

    Tubeboy Member

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    ASLEF and the RMT are still planning to strike on the dates that have been announced.
     
  16. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    For anyone interested, quite a good account of how Aslef were approached re night tube and how this dispute has been allowed to escalate in the way that it has...

    http://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1503-Management-just-refused-to-listen#.Vpvif_EzTm0

    Can't copy text as I'm on my phone but will try later.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Jan 2016
  17. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Thanks for that, it's clear and well written. My only concern is the reference to the 'zero hours culture' which just seems to be unnecessarily emotive.
     
  18. FordFocus

    FordFocus Member

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    The point he makes about zero hours is for the potential misuse of part time staff. It needs to be properly managed, none of this contracted to do only 8 hours a week and then work 30 hours overtime in a week to cover other staff because it's cheaper for LUL than to recruit full time drivers.

    I have nothing against part time at all provided that they are on the same contract, conditions and travel concessions as full time staff just at a reduced wage and hours with written and signed agreements from both LUL and the unions.
     
  19. chris11256

    chris11256 Member

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    This was partly in the FAQ listed with the job posting. One question was 'is there the opportunity to do more than 15 hours a week'. The response was worded along the lines of no, you're contracted for 15 hours a week.

    I haven't got my TFL job site login on my work pc, so can't quote word for word.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Just seen on BBC news aslef recommend suspending strike action.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jan 2016
  20. Tubeboy

    Tubeboy Member

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    ASLEF suspended their proposed action due to some concessions. These included, the part time drivers being recruited are to do only their contracted hours, Ie 15 hours spread over Friday and Saturday nights only. Also a transfer of their licence so they could (in theory) move to tfl concessions like Lorol and TFL Rail and drive trains. How this would happen in practice, I don't know. LU T/ops don't do the assessments that mainline prospective trainees have to do,and it's not to RSSB levels.
     
  21. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I wonder why it's taken so long to agree these concessions. If they had agreed them months ago, perhaps there would have been less strike action, assuming this is enough to avert strike action and resolve the issue. I don't know if it is of course.
     
  22. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    Instead of offering concessions to the Unions, LU were more recently interesting in advertising externally for drivers on different contracts/hours/wages/salary to existing T/Ops and bypassing the Framework Agreement for filling driver positions from promotional station staff. That certainly helped the negotiations along!
     
  23. gavin

    gavin Member

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    The RMT union has announced a new 48 hour Tube strike, starting 9pm Sat 6 Feb, over jobs.
     
  24. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Only station grades though.
     
  25. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    FFtFS related?

    AP JNP have apparently also now been balloted.

    Not surprising since Northfeilds seems to really be struggling with the 73TS at the moment.
     
  26. bluegoblin7

    bluegoblin7 Member

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    Yes. Dates chosen are the FFtF(S) trial launch weekend - King's Cross & Central line East.

    How well it's supported remains to be seen - various murmurings doing the rounds...
     
  27. Rup

    Rup Member

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    Anyone got a feeling for how badly services will be affected this weekend? I'm in London this weekend.
     
  28. westv

    westv Established Member

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    So presumably it'll affect services Monday morning too. Flippin' pain in the rear if it does. Just seems like there's a new strike called every week at the moment.
     
  29. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    The last time RMT station staff only went on strike, a reasonable train service operated although several stations were non-stopped.
     
  30. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Must be a bunch of stubborn d-heads in management.
     
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