London underground strike

[Mojo]

At some point the workers will have to cut their losses and accept that they might have to work nights, like other jobs (2 x 12 hour day shifts, 2 X 12 hour nights shifts , 4 days off, working 365 days a year regardless if it's a weekend or a bank holiday)

The majority of grades on the Underground already have nights on their rosters. CSA must be the most notable grade that doesn't have any night shifts (although there were a handful of them in days gone by). Train Operators cannot work 12 Hour shifts; it simply isn't permitted. Many other rosters already have 12 Hour night shifts. Staff are already contracted to work all year round; the annual leave quota has an extra 8 days on it compared to office staff as 'compensation' for the fact they may have to work bank holidays.

 

[chris11256]

TSSA have announced they'll be joining the RMT on strike.

Quote from Steve Griffiths, LU COO.
'Yesterday, and having previously argued that it was 'not about money', the RMT leadership made further demands for unaffordable pay rises and the hiring of even more staff.We have reiterated our intention to keep talking and listening and have shown flexibility by putting forward a very fair revised offer.
Our offer guarantees the same number of weekends off as they have today....no one will be asked to work more hours than they do today....and annual leave entitlements are unchanged - 43 days for drivers and 52 days for station staff.'

 

[Robertj21a]

Are you sure ?I don't recall a resounding victory for ASLEF after their 2 week strike in 1982

Who said it should be a resounding victory for ASLEF ? - I said it should bring results in one direction or the other. If ASLEF lost out in 1982 (I don't recall the detail) then it was, presumably, because management 'won'.

 

[chris11256]

I find it interesting that ASLEF haven't jumped on the bandwagon and announces similar strikes.
Does this suggest a deal with ASLEF is near?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Quote from Steve Griffiths, LU COO.
'Yesterday, and having previously argued that it was 'not about money', the RMT leadership made further demands for unaffordable pay rises and the hiring of even more staff.

Yep, as they've been saying all along Steve, you need more drivers to do the night work. And you need to pay the other an incentive for seeing their family life destroyed.

Still, Steve Griffiths should know all about managing strike action. When he was COO at Virgin Atlantic he repeatedly told striking pilots that multi-billionaire Beardy Branson couldn't afford to pay them more money or else he'd go bust. It's good to see he's slipped into his new job so easily.

Meanwhile his immediate boss, Mike Brown, trousered a £170,000 bonus last year. So we all know what unaffordable is.

 

[chris11256]

For anyone interested there's a full statement on tfl's website comparing the RMT demands with the proposed offer.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/august/london-underground-statement-on-further-strike-threa
I would take it with a slight pinch of salt, but still an interesting read.

 

[Wiggler]

For anyone interested there's a full statement on tfl's website comparing the RMT demands with the proposed offer.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/august/london-underground-statement-on-further-strike-threa
I would take it with a slight pinch of salt, but still an interesting read.

Taking with a pinch of salt....

How accurate is the list of demands?!

one of the RMT demands say:
"Payments for Night Tube to be made to staff on lines where the Night Tube will not even be operating"

I thought RMT love to keep saying "It's not about the money!!!"

erm...

 

[Tetchytyke]

There's an awful lot of "jam tomorrow" from TfL, and how things will be "transitional" until "Night Tube is fully operational".

The simple fact is most TOps don't think these plans are transitional and don't think there will be any jam tomorrow.

The blogger ASLEF Shrugged sums it up:
http://aslefshrugged.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/10months-after-lu-announced-night-tube.html

 

[Daniel]

one of the RMT demands say:
"Payments for Night Tube to be made to staff on lines where the Night Tube will not even be operating"

I thought RMT love to keep saying "It's not about the money!!!"

erm...

It's all about the context. I believe from what I know about the discussions, that the demand request was assurance that the Night Tube 'transition' bonus would be paid to staff on lines not initially part of the Night Tube, should it be extended to those lines at a later date - (which it is planned to do so).

 

[westv]

How likely is a normal service until 18:30 on the Thursday?

 

[matt_world2004]

If it is transitional set a deadline as to when the night duties become optional

 

[chris11256]

What kind of service can we expect on the Thursday in between the strike action? I'm wondering whether it'll be a write off day with no/little service.

 

[gavin]

What kind of service can we expect on the Thursday in between the strike action? I'm wondering whether it'll be a write off day with no/little service.

Should be a normal service from the start then easing off again during the afternoon and evening

 

[ainsworth74]

Should be a normal service from the start then easing off again during the afternoon and evening

Are the maintenance staff at depots involved in the strike action? If they are then that could mean that, even if the trains are in the right place, the service will be degraded the next morning.

 

[westv]

Ok thanks. As Friday is my normal day to travel home was thinking of going Thursday lunchtime.

 

[Dstock7080]

Are the maintenance staff at depots involved in the strike action? If they are then that could mean that, even if the trains are in the right place, the service will be degraded the next morning.

Yes, depot staff are involved in the dispute and the RMT overtime ban is regularly causing 12-18 District Line trains to be cancelled daily.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah I thought so. In that case expect disruption the next day even if the trains end up in the right places!

 

[westv]

Ah I thought so. In that case expect disruption the next day even if the trains end up in the right places!

So 3 days of varying levels of horse poo for passengers.

 

[chris11256]

BBC news are claiming ASLEF will not be joining the upcoming strike.

 

[Dstock7080]

ASLEF have suspended the current action but the ballot mandate still remains live.
LU have withdrawn the proposed Night Tube rotas and duty sheets, effective from 6 September, thus they now outside the agreed 28 days notice period.

With this encouraging move, ASLEF have suspended their action.

 

[chris11256]

ASLEF have suspended the current action but the ballot mandate still remains live.
LU have withdrawn the proposed Night Tube rotas and duty sheets, effective from 6 September, thus they now outside the agreed 28 days notice period.

With this encouraging move, ASLEF have suspended their action.

This is good news. I wonder what the sticking point is with the other unions. I thought the rota and work life balance was the main problem?

 

[TheNewNo2]

So 3 days of varying levels of horse poo for passengers.

It would be 4 days, as per RTM, "‘Train operator’ and ‘instructor operator’ members will strike on 9pm on 25 August to 9pm on the following day, and again from 9pm on 27 August to 9pm on the following day." That means no service on the 26th or 28th, and a significantly disrupted afternoon peak on the 25th and 27th.

 

[gavin]

All-night Tube service to be delayed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33889205

 

[radamfi]

TfL might as well abandon the night service, and now they can blame the staff for blocking it. I don't see what TfL can do anyway, if it really isn't about the money. If the staff really don't want to work nights then TfL can't force them and it would cost too much to hire and train new drivers just for 2 nights a week.

 

[Robertj21a]

All-night Tube service to be delayed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33889205

It actually says *MAY* be delayed - I'm sure it will be, but that's not what the BBC are saying at present.

 

[gavin]

Today's talks were positive according to BBC London news raising hopes the tube strike could be called off

 

[Rich McLean]

Meanwhile

https://www.change.org/p/driverlesstrains-petition-the-mayor-to-begin-operating-completely-driverless-trains-on-the-entire-london-underground

Over 3000 signatures already.

 

[A-driver]

Meanwhile

https://www.change.org/p/driverless...rless-trains-on-the-entire-london-underground

Over 3000 signatures already.

Ah yes, thought that would come up! A petition completely misunderstanding the point of these strikes and who is actually on strike! Anyone who believes driverless tubes will beat any strike action is seriously deluded! Almost all LU staff have been on strike and so even if drivers came in to work it wouldn't allow a service to run. The DLR which everyone sees as this perfect driverless system is still open to strikes and I believe has been shut down before by strike action.

Boris is already looking into driverless trains (with little success) so this petition won't change anything.

 

[infobleep]

The Evening Standard yesterday mentioned the crux of the matter T the heart of the strike but only in a paragraph at the end of the report.

I advocate everyone always read the opening paragraphs of a new report and the last couple and then decide whether they wish to read the nits in the middle.

 

[whoosh]

Meanwhile

https://www.change.org/p/driverlesstrains-petition-the-mayor-to-begin-operating-completely-driverless-trains-on-the-entire-london-underground

Over 3000 signatures already.

Yes, apparently Alton Towers runs driverless trains on it's roller coasters. It's a good reliable system and nothing ever goes wrong. Boris is going on a fact finding trip this week, and being thrifty with taxpayers money, won't be claiming expenses for it. He'll be cross-subsidising from his 11% pay rise as MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip.