London Victoria to Gospel Oak Oyster card fare

[infobleep]

When I put in London Victoria to Gospel Oak into the Transport for London Fare Finder I get
No fares found, please try again

Does anyone have any theories as to why this might be? Is it because they expect you to use the underground, which is Victoria to Gospel Oak, rather than London Victoria to Gospel Oak?

What would happen fare wise if one did try and travel from London Victoria to Gospel Oak by train?

 

[Ianno87]

What would happen fare wise if one did try and travel from London Victoria to Gospel Oak by train?

You'd get charged the National Rail Zone 1-2 single fare (based on going via Clapham Junction / Willesden Junction).

 

[hkstudent]

You'd get charged the National Rail Zone 1-2 single fare (based on going via Clapham Junction / Willesden Junction).

Yeah, it is strange for TfL to remove a lot of fare pairs on National Rail - National Rail journeys which deemed circuitous.
One of the typical strange results would be: you can find Abbey Wood (TfL) - Fenchurch Street fare but not Plumstead (NR)- Fenchurch Street fare, but given that Plumstead and Abbey Wood are on the same railway line where Abbey Wood is further down the line.

There's no point for them to remove such fare pair in the database given that one row of record doesn't occupy much storage memory.

 

[Ianno87]

Yeah, it is strange for TfL to remove a lot of fare pairs on National Rail - National Rail journeys which deemed circuitous.
One of the typical strange results would be: you can find Abbey Wood (TfL) - Fenchurch Street fare but not Plumstead (NR)- Fenchurch Street fare, but given that Plumstead and Abbey Wood are on the same railway line where Abbey Wood is further down the line.

There's no point for them to remove such fare pair in the database given that one row of record doesn't occupy much storage memory.

Possibly "unlikely" origin/destination pairs may be removed so that people don't get an unrealistically low expectation of the fare that will be charged - say if the actual journey involves a tube segment or something.

 

[MikeWh]

You'd get charged the National Rail Zone 1-2 single fare (based on going via Clapham Junction / Willesden Junction).

I think you might get charged the zone 1-2 NR through fare (ie mixed NR/LU).

Yeah, it is strange for TfL to remove a lot of fare pairs on National Rail - National Rail journeys which deemed circuitous.

There's no point for them to remove such fare pair in the database given that one row of record doesn't occupy much storage memory.

I think you'll find that the fares were never set up in the database in the first place.

One of the typical strange results would be: you can find Abbey Wood (TfL) - Fenchurch Street fare but not Plumstead (NR)- Fenchurch Street fare, but given that Plumstead and Abbey Wood are on the same railway line where Abbey Wood is further down the line.

Abbey Wood is a strange case. Fares have been set up as if Crossrail was already operating. The initial delay announcement happened just too late as the fares for December need to be in the database in time for the September revision. The decision was taken not to remove them even though XR is still ages away from completion. This means, for example, that it's cheaper to go Abbey Wood to any zone 1 LU station via Farringdon than it is from Plumstead to the same station. If you switch to the Underground at London Bridge, Cannon Street etc then you'll be charged the higher fare.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for the replies. There is a National Rail fare for London Victoria to Gospel Oak.

My reason for wanting to know this was that I'm traveling Guildford to London Victoira. Then London Victoira to Gospel Oak and finally Gospal Oak to Guildford.

So I was trying to work out if I should buy a ticket to Clapham Junction or to Victoria. I think I've worked out a ticket to Victoira is best value, with separate oyster from Clapham Junction. I get a third off my Oyster travel as I have a gold card discount.

Im arriving into Victoira before 9:30 so will be super off peak.

If anyone thinks different to that please post.

 

[JonathanH]

Then London Victoira to Gospel Oak

Wouldn't the normal route be Victoria line to Highbury & Islington and then the North London Line to Gospel Oak? What is the benefit of going via Clapham Junction?

Is this a day return journey from Guildford at the weekend or something else?

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for the replies. There is a National Rail fare for London Victoria to Gospel Oak.

BR fares doesn’t have a London Victoria to Gospel Oak fare. I reckon NRES is trying to flog you an LU cash fare of £4.90...

 

[JonathanH]

My reason for wanting to know this was that I'm traveling Guildford to London Victoira. Then London Victoira to Gospel Oak and finally Gospal Oak to Guildford.

Am I missing something about your travelling plans?

Guildford to London Victoria - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.35 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=VIC&grpd=1072&rlc=NGC&rte=506&tkt=SOH

Guildford to Gospel Oak - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.90 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=GPO&rlc=NGC&ldn=1&tkt=SOH

The through ticket offers by far the cheapest option for the planned journey.

 

[A Challenge]

Am I missing something about your travelling plans?

Guildford to London Victoria - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.35 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=VIC&grpd=1072&rlc=NGC&rte=506&tkt=SOH

Guildford to Gospel Oak - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.90 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=GPO&rlc=NGC&ldn=1&tkt=SOH

The through ticket offers by far the cheapest option for the planned journey.

Though if buying the through ticket, from Victoria you have to go via tube not Clapham Junction.

 

[infobleep]

Am I missing something about your travelling plans?

Guildford to London Victoria - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.35 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=VIC&grpd=1072&rlc=NGC&rte=506&tkt=SOH

Guildford to Gospel Oak - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.90 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=GPO&rlc=NGC&ldn=1&tkt=SOH

The through ticket offers by far the cheapest option for the planned journey.

Originally I was looking at Guildford to Hampstead Heath and that came up with a fare for £14.45 from memory. Then some friends suggested Gospel Oak.

Looking up the fare to Gospel Oak on National Rail Enquiries App also comes up with the £14.44 fare. Perhaps there is an additional fare it's not showing.

I was also trying to avoid the tube, given the Coronavirus. I've not been on the tube since March or even earlier. I was at moderate risk during the first lockdown and I don't know what travelling on the tube is like in terms of virus risk.

I bave done buses and coaches now and obviously trains.

Hence I was looking at fares from Clapham Junction, especially when I was being quoted £14.45 fares.

BR fares doesn’t have a London Victoria to Gospel Oak fare. I reckon NRES is trying to flog you an LU cash fare of £4.90...

Not sure where I got £6 from. It is indeed £4.90. Perhaps I misread the screen!

 

[JonathanH]

Looking up the fare to Gospel Oak on National Rail Enquiries App also comes up with the £14.44 fare. Perhaps there is an additional fare it's not showing.

£14.45 is the off-peak day return fare.
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=GPO&rlc=NGC&ldn=1&tkt=CDR

I was also trying to avoid the tube, given the Coronavirus. I've not been on the tube since March or even earlier. I was at moderate risk during the first lockdown and I don't know what travelling on the tube is like in terms of virus risk.

Ah, fair enough.

What about the bus from Victoria to Hampstead Heath (24).

On the way back from Gospel Oak (or Hampstead Heath), another option avoiding the underground may be to change at West Hampstead / West Hampstead Thameslink, travel to Blackfriars and then back from Waterloo.

Indeed, even if you were looking to avoid the deep underground, Victoria to Blackfriars then Thameslink to West Hampstead Thameslink for the connection to Gospel Oak may be an option on the Circle / District which is generally a bit more airy.

 

[Haywain]

Wouldn’t it just be easier to pay £15.45 for a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard?

 

[infobleep]

Wouldn’t it just be easier to pay £15.45 for a Super Off Peak Day Travelcard?

But I enjoy playing the game of trying to travel for the cheapest price and figuring out how this is done. I'm fascinated by rail fares and timetables.

--New post--
The following TfL web page gives you an indication of now busy each station is during the day Monday to Friday. Word of warning, it isn't mobile friendly, which is a shame. Still I didn't let that stop me from attempting to find out the information on a mobile. It doesn't cover weekends, bar a short note, which suggests to me I should be fine on the tube today.

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

 

[Cdd89]

In case anyone’s curious, I did a bit of data crunching a while back and produced a list of every Oyster station pair without a route (aka fare) defined between them.

They’re sorted by count (with reverse directions removed), so the interesting ones are if you scroll down (past the HEX’s/GEX’s/HS1’s). Also a caveat, they’re based on slightly old data.

I’ve done quite a few of these and the system always manages to charge something. E&C LU to E&C NR (with no OSI or pink reader touches) is charged as Via Zone 1 (the simplistic assumption would be Zone 2 only) so clearly some thought goes into a plausible route, maybe via a system of waypoints/known interchanges.

StationPairsWithoutRoutes

Data from 2020_09_06 From,To,FromName,ToName,Count,direction_agnostic,New from 2017 data? 5449,500,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Acton Town,668,500x5449 5449,501,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Barbican,668,501x5449 5449,502,London Victoria [National Rail - ...

docs.google.com

 

[PeterC]

In case anyone’s curious, I did a bit of data crunching a while back and produced a list of every Oyster station pair without a route (aka fare) defined between them.
W
They’re sorted by count (with reverse directions removed), so the interesting ones are if you scroll down (past the HEX’s/GEX’s/HS1’s). Also a caveat, they’re based on slightly old data.

I’ve done quite a few of these and the system always manages to charge something. E&C LU to E&C NR (with no OSI or pink reader touches) is charged as Via Zone 1 (the simplistic assumption would be Zone 2 only) so clearly some thought goes into a plausible route, maybe via a system of waypoints/known interchanges.

StationPairsWithoutRoutes

Data from 2020_09_06 From,To,FromName,ToName,Count,direction_agnostic,New from 2017 data? 5449,500,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Acton Town,668,500x5449 5449,501,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Barbican,668,501x5449 5449,502,London Victoria [National Rail - ...

docs.google.com

I would have assumed zone 1 only for the E&C pair. One less change and high frequency services on two legs.

 

[Cdd89]

I would have assumed zone 1 only for the E&C pair. One less change and high frequency services on two legs.

That was my point - there’s no way to do that journey via Zone 2 (or 2-4) only without an OSI touch somewhere to flag an interchange (of course now someone will point out I’m wrong!). In other words it got it right, I was just impressed that it did so without a route to go on since a simplistic assumption would just look at the zones.

 

[infobleep]

Am I missing something about your travelling plans?

Guildford to London Victoria - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.35 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=VIC&grpd=1072&rlc=NGC&rte=506&tkt=SOH

Guildford to Gospel Oak - Weekend Super Off-peak day return is £11.90 with a railcard
http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=GLD&dest=GPO&rlc=NGC&ldn=1&tkt=SOH

The through ticket offers by far the cheapest option for the planned journey.

So I made up journey. First stop was Queenstown Road (Battersea) as I hadn't noticed I was being route there with a wall to Battersea Park.

Then I reboarses a train from Battersea Park to Victoira. I'd forgotten that I was within the off peak time period for the ticket smhut when I showed the ticket they let me through.

My next journey to Gospel Oak was fine as that was outside the time zone.

However looking at the data again I see the following:

Queenstown Road: 04:30-11:05 & 16:03-18:35

.

So does that mean if you get off a train due to arrive into London before 9:31, you are not meant to join a train from there because the restriction is from 4:30.

I also noticed Gospel Oak was from 04:30.but had no evening restrictions. I had to do a page search to find Gospel Oak as it wasn't in alphabetical order.

In case anyone’s curious, I did a bit of data crunching a while back and produced a list of every Oyster station pair without a route (aka fare) defined between them.

They’re sorted by count (with reverse directions removed), so the interesting ones are if you scroll down (past the HEX’s/GEX’s/HS1’s). Also a caveat, they’re based on slightly old data.

I’ve done quite a few of these and the system always manages to charge something. E&C LU to E&C NR (with no OSI or pink reader touches) is charged as Via Zone 1 (the simplistic assumption would be Zone 2 only) so clearly some thought goes into a plausible route, maybe via a system of waypoints/known interchanges.

StationPairsWithoutRoutes

Data from 2020_09_06 From,To,FromName,ToName,Count,direction_agnostic,New from 2017 data? 5449,500,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Acton Town,668,500x5449 5449,501,London Victoria [National Rail - Gatwick Express],Barbican,668,501x5449 5449,502,London Victoria [National Rail - ...

docs.google.com

Thanks for that. I shall look at it for interest.