London Waterloo - Reading platform extensions

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Robbies

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It seems that in getting ready for the 10 coach 458/5's, that any station platforms that can only take up to 8 coaches is being extended up to 10 coach platforms, one of those being my local station Martins Heron.

I contacted Network Rail to find put whether the station platforms would be extended to have 12 coach trains rather than 10 coach trains and got told that they were only extending the platforms at the stations fro 10 coach trains and would be running a more frequent service.

Well, my understanding of the more frequent service is a train every 15 minutes. But, from details that I have seen today at Martins Heron railway station, the more trains only seems to be in the rush hours. Off peak, we still have the 20 - 30 minutes between trains timetable if we are lucky.
 
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MrB

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Not having any knowledge of the line, are they 10 x 23m coaches or 10 x 20m coaches? If the former then this is almost as long as a 12 coach train anyway.

What rolling stock operates on this route? Is it 458/5s?
 

coppercapped

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Not having any knowledge of the line, are they 10 x 23m coaches or 10 x 20m coaches? If the former then this is almost as long as a 12 coach train anyway.

What rolling stock operates on this route? Is it 458/5s?
Currently operated by Class 450 units but will revert to 5 coach Class 458 units when (a) the platforms have been lengthened and (b) the Class 707s are delivered to take over the Windsor services from the 458s.

Both the 450s and the 458s have 20m long coach bodies.

PS. During the recent rebuild, Platforms 4 to 6 at Reading were extended to take 12 coach trains of 20m stock.
 

HarleyDavidson

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Which were intended to be used by the ill fated airtrack project, which the NIMBYs of Egham stopped dead, because of the length of time they'd have to wait at level crossing barriers.

Of course the council & NR caved in to their demands like they always do and that was that, never mind the fact that a lot of people around the Egham area work at Heathrow and whinge about the traffic and the time it takes to get there!
 

JamesRowden

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It seems that in getting ready for the 10 coach 458/5's, that any station platforms that can only take up to 8 coaches is being extended up to 10 coach platforms, one of those being my local station Martins Heron.

I contacted Network Rail to find put whether the station platforms would be extended to have 12 coach trains rather than 10 coach trains and got told that they were only extending the platforms at the stations fro 10 coach trains and would be running a more frequent service.

Well, my understanding of the more frequent service is a train every 15 minutes. But, from details that I have seen today at Martins Heron railway station, the more trains only seems to be in the rush hours. Off peak, we still have the 20 - 30 minutes between trains timetable if we are lucky.

The proposal in the Wessex Route Study involves the present 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Richmond off-peak service no longer calling at Earley, Winnersh Triangle, Winnersh and Martins Heron. Those stations would be served by a 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Hounslow service instead.
 
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Robbies

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The proposal in the Wessex Route Study involves the present 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Richmond off-peak service no longer calling at Earley, Winnersh Triangle, Winnersh and Martins Heron. Those stations would be served by a 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Hounslow service instead.

The trains going Hounslow rather than Richmond, would mean a longer journey and the train either having to have two drivers on the train or the driver on the train changing ends of the train so that the front of the train, then becomes the back of the train as happens when engineering work takes place at Clapham Junction?
 

HeelBurton

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The trains going Hounslow rather than Richmond, would mean a longer journey and the train either having to have two drivers on the train or the driver on the train changing ends of the train so that the front of the train, then becomes the back of the train as happens when engineering work takes place at Clapham Junction?



Not really. You could do it with one driver. And it wouldn't have to change ends. The Hounslow diversion occasionally happens during disruption of during engineering works, for example, train would call Vauxhall, Clapham, Putney, Brentford, Hounslow, feltham then on to Reading. The journey time isn't that much slower, maybe a few minutes and no reverse movements required.
 

TEW

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Currently operated by Class 450 units but will revert to 5 coach Class 458 units when (a) the platforms have been lengthened and (b) the Class 707s are delivered to take over the Windsor services from the 458s.

Both the 450s and the 458s have 20m long coach bodies.

PS. During the recent rebuild, Platforms 4 to 6 at Reading were extended to take 12 coach trains of 20m stock.

And (c) power supply upgrades are complete.
 

FenMan

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The proposal in the Wessex Route Study involves the present 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Richmond off-peak service no longer calling at Earley, Winnersh Triangle, Winnersh and Martins Heron. Those stations would be served by a 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Hounslow service instead.

Sounds like fun for Wokingham residents. 8tph SWT plus 6tph GWR, even if perfectly paired up for timing purposes, mean the level crossing barriers would be down seven times an hour. Currently the barriers are down four times an hour if all goes to plan.
 

MrB

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Sounds like fun for Wokingham residents. 8tph SWT plus 6tph GWR, even if perfectly paired up for timing purposes, mean the level crossing barriers would be down seven times an hour. Currently the barriers are down four times an hour if all goes to plan.

And when the proverbial hits the fan gridlock ensues in the town of Wokingham one would imagine!
 

SWT_USER

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The proposal in the Wessex Route Study involves the present 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Richmond off-peak service no longer calling at Earley, Winnersh Triangle, Winnersh and Martins Heron. Those stations would be served by a 2tph Reading to Waterloo via Hounslow service instead.

Would this run in place of the Weybridge service or in addition? Would be good to have a fast service from Hounslow calling at maybe Hounslow > Brentford > Putney > Clapham > Vauxhall as a couple of trains in the evening peak do.
 

JamesRowden

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Would this run in place of the Weybridge service or in addition? Would be good to have a fast service from Hounslow calling at maybe Hounslow > Brentford > Putney > Clapham > Vauxhall as a couple of trains in the evening peak do.

The service would be in addition to the Weybridge service and the proposal has this additional 2tph service making the stops that you've suggested.
 
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Barn

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And when the proverbial hits the fan gridlock ensues in the town of Wokingham one would imagine!

The junction around the level crossing was remodelled recently. I wonder what effect that has had. Previously the crossing leading immediately onto a mini-roundabout was fairly scary, even if there is a signal box overlooking the site.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is Longcross headed for a regular service soon? The area is being redeveloped with housing, I think.
 

Robbies

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Not really. You could do it with one driver. And it wouldn't have to change ends. The Hounslow diversion occasionally happens during disruption of during engineering works, for example, train would call Vauxhall, Clapham, Putney, Brentford, Hounslow, feltham then on to Reading. The journey time isn't that much slower, maybe a few minutes and no reverse movements required.

Okay, thanks.
 

JonathanH

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I can't see a return to a 4tph South West Trains service to Reading unless the level crossing issues are resolved. If that was enough to see of Airtrack what is different about 4tph Waterloo to Reading.
 

swt_passenger

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I can't see a return to a 4tph South West Trains service to Reading unless the level crossing issues are resolved. If that was enough to see of Airtrack what is different about 4tph Waterloo to Reading.
The Wessex route study does acknowledge that they would require 'level crossing solutions' to increase beyond a maximum 20 tph on the combined Windsor side service. It isn't being ignored.
 

Bookd

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Feltham crossing is easy to close; it is only open for road traffic in one direction, and when the gates are closed it is quicker to go round by the road bridge. Others such as Mortlake and North Sheen would be much more difficult; if closed there is a very long diversion in heavy traffic, and to build new road bridges would involve demolition of a lot of expensive property.
 

JamesRowden

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Feltham crossing is easy to close; it is only open for road traffic in one direction, and when the gates are closed it is quicker to go round by the road bridge. Others such as Mortlake and North Sheen would be much more difficult; if closed there is a very long diversion in heavy traffic, and to build new road bridges would involve demolition of a lot of expensive property.

Which is why the proposed additional services are routed via Hounslow rather than via Richmond.
 

infobleep

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And when the proverbial hits the fan gridlock ensues in the town of Wokingham one would imagine!
Perhaps they will stop the project from happening.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 

Goldfish62

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Feltham crossing is easy to close; it is only open for road traffic in one direction, and when the gates are closed it is quicker to go round by the road bridge. Others such as Mortlake and North Sheen would be much more difficult; if closed there is a very long diversion in heavy traffic, and to build new road bridges would involve demolition of a lot of expensive property.

It's closing in November once the Hounslow Road bridge is strengthened for the increased traffic flow. There's also a new station entrance being built with ramps up to the bridge where new bus stops will be located to avoid services having to double run to the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It seems that in getting ready for the 10 coach 458/5's, that any station platforms that can only take up to 8 coaches is being extended up to 10 coach platforms, one of those being my local station Martins Heron.

I contacted Network Rail to find put whether the station platforms would be extended to have 12 coach trains rather than 10 coach trains and got told that they were only extending the platforms at the stations fro 10 coach trains and would be running a more frequent service.

There was a drop-in session at Martins Heron last night, held by NR to show the work that is taking place. Work starts in a couple of weeks time and runs until September. The extensions will be under the road bridge at the London end.

The more frequent they talk of probably means the 0653 from Reading and the 1805 from Waterloo once WIT fully opens. With these services the Reading line will be just about 4tph in each peak at long last.
 

Robbies

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It's closing in November once the Hounslow Road bridge is strengthened for the increased traffic flow. There's also a new station entrance being built with ramps up to the bridge where new bus stops will be located to avoid services having to double run to the station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There was a drop-in session at Martins Heron last night, held by NR to show the work that is taking place. Work starts in a couple of weeks time and runs until September. The extensions will be under the road bridge at the London end.

The more frequent they talk of probably means the 0653 from Reading and the 1805 from Waterloo once WIT fully opens. With these services the Reading line will be just about 4tph in each peak at long last.

Yes, I know the extensions will be under the road bridge and I went to the drop sessions. To my horror I found out that where I live maybe affected by the works that take place as they need to take up half the car park, which means possibly 15 - 20 cars parking in side roads within walking distance from station, one of which is the road that I live in.

I am presuming that the trains going via the Hounslow loop to Waterloo, will be stopping at Feltham so that people have connections for Heathrow?
 

nickw1

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The service would be in addition to the Weybridge service and the proposal has this additional 2tph service making the stops that you've suggested.

Might it be better to cut down the stops a bit, given it's already diverting via Hounslow with a slight delay? e.g. Clapham Junction fast to Hounslow then Feltham, to speed up times to stations further out from London? Or are there not the paths? And maybe divert down the Camberley line instead, to be met at Ascot by an Ascot to Reading shuttle? (Not sure how much demand there is for Camberley to London direct versus Winnersh, Earley etc to London direct?)
 
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JamesRowden

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Might it be better to cut down the stops a bit, given it's already diverting via Hounslow with a slight delay? e.g. Clapham Junction fast to Hounslow then Feltham, to speed up times to stations further out from London? Or are there not the paths? And maybe divert down the Camberley line instead, to be met at Ascot by an Ascot to Reading shuttle? (Not sure how much demand there is for Camberley to London direct versus Winnersh, Earley etc to London direct?)

The option includes a 2tph Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot service in addition to the 4tph Waterloo to Reading service.
 

Goldfish62

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Yes, I know the extensions will be under the road bridge and I went to the drop sessions. To my horror I found out that where I live maybe affected by the works that take place as they need to take up half the car park, which means possibly 15 - 20 cars parking in side roads within walking distance from station, one of which is the road that I live in.

I also live very nearby, but I'm relaxed about the car park issue. My road is already full to the brim with cars parking for the station so there's no more room there to park anyway.
 

HeelBurton

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The option includes a 2tph Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot service in addition to the 4tph Waterloo to Reading service.



I believe Strawberry Hill depot have been learning Reading to prepare for "extra work" however they would not sign the Ascot-Aldershot section
 

JamesRowden

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I believe Strawberry Hill depot have been learning Reading to prepare for "extra work" however they would not sign the Ascot-Aldershot section

I have attached the 2013/14 high-peak service pattern/loadings and the possible future off-peak service pattern from the Wessex Route Study to this post. The possible future service pattern differs with regards to services via Ascot in that there is an additional Reading to Waterloo service (3tph rather than 4tph) and 2tph of the Reading to Waterloo services run via Hounslow rather than all running via Richmond. Therefore the idea seems to be to run the high peak service pattern during the off-peak. I presume that it would be 5-car trains off-peak.

The possible service pattern is what Network Rail think will be able to run. It will be up to the DfT and franchise bidders to determine the actual future off-peak service pattern.
 

Attachments

  • Passenger loads on high-peak Windsor Line services (2013-14).png
    Passenger loads on high-peak Windsor Line services (2013-14).png
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  • Proposed off-peak train spec for Windsor Line connectivity.png
    Proposed off-peak train spec for Windsor Line connectivity.png
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Robbies

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I am presuming that the Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot service, will continue on to Guildford from Aldershot, so that you still have this service in place?

The Guildford via Aldershot service to Ascot is currently being run by joining two class 456 2car trains together to form one a train and I suspect that this will go over to 5 car class 458/5 operations?
 

The Ham

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I am presuming that the Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot service, will continue on to Guildford from Aldershot, so that you still have this service in place?

The Guildford via Aldershot service to Ascot is currently being run by joining two class 456 2car trains together to form one a train and I suspect that this will go over to 5 car class 458/5 operations?

Given the desire for direct services from Farnham to Guildford from some parties, that maybe is what is to be provided to close the gap.
 

swt_passenger

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Given the desire for direct services from Farnham to Guildford from some parties, that maybe is what is to be provided to close the gap.

There's a diagram in the route study (Figure 6.2) that refers to the 'additional 2 tph via Ascot' on the Camberley route; which could be taken as suggesting that the through services might be additional to the existing Ascot/Guildford shuttle, but I wouldn't say it was as clear as it could be.

The existing Ascot/Guildford service doesn't seem to get much of a mention, except in the context of capacity on the North Downs route on the shared section.
 
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