London Zonal Fares (FCC)

[glynn80]

Thanks for that, so I will effectively be sold an underground zone 1 ticket (rather than an overground one) at a cost of over 100% more than it *should* be according to ATOC.

Although, it is cheaper to ask for two separate tickets or one from a zone 3 station... that makes a lot of sense in a 'zonal' structure. Now just a case of waiting for ATOCs response about this and obtaining some answers.

Would the U1 ticket even be valid via LDB and thence to STP or would it only be valid on the Underground to Kings Cross St Pancras?

 

[dan_atki]

Originally I thought not, but then thinking about it the ticket is valid as the final leg of the journey is meant to be on LU. (On a Uxxx ticket the first OR final leg must be on LU).

But because of the 'inter-availability of routes' on TL between West Hampstead Thameslink and Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge, this leg of the journey is effectively LU from a ticketing perspective (and upon looking at the NFM should be priced in line with LU (quote below) - so it strikes me as odd it isn't... but that's another matter).

’Rail Only’ Zonal Fares in London

Day single and return tickets issued for rail only point-to-point journeys between any two National Rail stations within the London Fare Zones area, are priced on a zonal basis with prices determined by the fare zones travelled in and through.

‘Rail Only’ Zonal Fares also apply to ‘cross-London’ journeys tickets where the point-to-point journey can be reasonably made without travelling on LU or DLR services. For example, a journey from Streatham (Zone 3) to Mill Hill Broadway (Zone 4) on First Capital Connect Thameslink services is priced as a Zones 1-4 ‘Rail Only’ fare. Such tickets are routed either NOT UNDERGROUND or LONDON NOT UNDERGROUND.

Note: For local journeys between stations on designated ‘interavailable’ routes, tickets are generally priced at the appropriate Underground cash fare – See Table 4.

Details of inter-available routes are shown in Section L.

 

[dan_atki]

An e-mail has been sent to ATOC regarding this issue and I'm waiting for a response.

A reply has landed in my inbox regarding the issues I mentioned for fares and tickets from in-boundary SWT stations and Waterloo East to St Pancras.

It seems the concensus is that ATOC accept WAE-LBG-STP is a reasonable route and are considering creating a fare for the flow:

It is true that there is no fare from London Waterloo East to London St Pancras. However, I accept that a reasonable route for this journey is via London Bridge and therefore I will ask our London Pricing Manager to consider creating a fare for this journey.

You are also correct in pointing out that there is no fare from Vauxhall to St Pancras via Waterloo. However, most customers would travel on the Victoria Line as this is the quickest and direct route. In view of your comments about fares from other South West Trains stations to St Pancras, we will consider introducing a fare from 'inboundary' stations to St Pancras. For stations further afield (i.e. outboundary stations) customers should purchase a ticket to Zone U1 which allows travel via London Underground or First Capital Connect.

 

[glynn80]

A reply has landed in my inbox regarding the issues I mentioned for fares and tickets from in-boundary SWT stations and Waterloo East to St Pancras.

It seems the concensus is that ATOC accept WAE-LBG-STP is a reasonable route and are considering creating a fare for the flow:

Interesting, but I wonder if anything will actually happen, I have seen assurances from pricing managers to address issues before, swept aside. Unfortunatley introducing new flows isn't as easy as it seems with various hoops needed to jump through!

 

[paul1609]

Originally I thought not, but then thinking about it the ticket is valid as the final leg of the journey is meant to be on LU. (On a Uxxx ticket the first OR final leg must be on LU).

But because of the 'inter-availability of routes' on TL between West Hampstead Thameslink and Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge, this leg of the journey is effectively LU from a ticketing perspective (and upon looking at the NFM should be priced in line with LU (quote below) - so it strikes me as odd it isn't... but that's another matter).

Interestingly from the south this is what we were originally sold if we asked for a ticket to Kings Cross Thameslink. I think that just before privatisation someone realised that BR was giving money away to LU for no reason and introduced a ticket to Kings Cross Thameslink Rte "not underground" this eventually became "any permitted" and due to a technicality in the agreement with LU Kings Cross Thameslink and St Pancras are now charged at the same fare as a ticket to London terminals.

Farringdon Tickets continue to be London U1.

 

[John @ home]

Farringdon Tickets continue to be London U1.

Not from within the London Fares Zones. For example, NFM 01 shows Wimbledon to Farringdon Und (ZFD) route Not Underground has an Anytime Day single (SDS) of £2.90, the same as adjacent stations City Thameslink and St Pancras.

From further afield the position varies. Brighton to Farringdon Und is the same price as the FCC fare to London Terminals, from Dover it's 10p more to Farringdon, but from Southampton Central it's £1.20 more to Farringdon but this is still £1.80 less than the fare to Zone U1* London.

John

 

[dan_atki]

Interesting, but I wonder if anything will actually happen, I have seen assurances from pricing managers to address issues before, swept aside. Unfortunatley introducing new flows isn't as easy as it seems with various hoops needed to jump through!

As an update to this thread - I've just been looking through things and I've noticed there is indeed now a STP-WAE flow and vice versa, introduced in NFM03. Looks like my e-mail didn't fall on deaf ears after all...