Long Delays - TOC duties?

[Failed Unit]

i am interested in the day if TOCs have any duties for minimising significant delay.

I was caught up in the track circuit failure at Peterborough this morning. As a result I missed the 0916 Peterborough to Newark service which passed my service outside the station.

I arrived at Lincoln at 1053 after going via Spalding but bad really.

However - asking at Lincoln about getting to Market Rasen I was told I needed to wait until the 1236.

So a missed connection at Peterborough by about 5 minutes turns into a 2 hour+ delay.

Is this really what the policy is? No wonder rural Lincolnshire routes do so badly when a single missed connection means a 2 hour+ delay.

 

[Belperpete]

Different TOCs seem to have different policies on what to do in such situations. Some may provide a taxi, depending on how long until the next train, others won't. Unfortunately the only requirement is to get you to your destination (or arrange overnight accommodation) if possible. In which case, if the connection is missed, it doesn't matter if the next train is 3 minutes or 3 hours, that's how long you will have to wait. Hopefully you should get compensation.

On a journey I made last November, my XC service to Birmingham ran late and missed my connection by about 3 minutes. The next train wasn't for another two hours, and involved a further change of trains with a long wait between, meaning that I finally arrived two and three quarter hours late. So I know how you feel. I (and a number of other passengers) also had to endure an hour and a half wait in sub-zero conditions at a station with both waiting room and toilets locked up for the night. In my case, I got the full return ticket cost back from XC, but that is poor reparation for the inconvenience and physical discomfort that I was subjected to. I am still waiting for TfW to respond about them locking the waiting room in mid-winter at somewhere with a timetabled connection involving a wait of nearly an hour (and that turned out that night to be considerably longer).

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks. Normally I have had a taxi because the missed train was the last train. In fact I seem to travel by taxi more then train.

I have put a delay repay in with GTR for a 140 minute delay. See what comes back.

But I have also asked East Midlands trains for their official policy. I really feel for them as they had nothing to do with delay and it will impact their business.

 

[robbeech]

Many TOCs (Northern are one) suggest that if the timetabled wait is OVER an hour (so an hourly service fails this check) then they’ll provide alternative transport to the destination or next suitable connecting point on a journey. I have never required this but have witnessed other passengers receive this.

 

[221129]

Many TOCs (Northern are one) suggest that if the timetabled wait is OVER an hour (so an hourly service fails this check) then they’ll provide alternative transport to the destination or next suitable connecting point on a journey. I have never required this but have witnessed other passengers receive this.

Depends on the TOC. Some are an hour some are 90mins some are 2 or even 3 hours.

 

[_toommm_]

Crosscountry and northern arent very good at this - I travelled Leeds to Strines, arriving into Sheffield booked at 17:54, leaving Sheffield 18:11. We were delayed by half an hour at Leeds, and the next Strines train was cancelled leaving a 2 hour wait in Sheff. I was told 'tough'.

 

[221129]

Crosscountry and northern arent very good at this - I travelled Leeds to Strines, arriving into Sheffield booked at 17:54, leaving Sheffield 18:11. We were delayed by half an hour at Leeds, and the next Strines train was cancelled leaving a 2 hour wait in Sheff. I was told 'tough'.

Cross-country is 2 hours so that would have been the correct course of action.

 

[Failed Unit]

Just a bit of follow up advice on this.

GTR have admitted that the delay was 120+ minutes. Their delay repay would give 100% of the return journey in this situation. However as the journey was on APs - I only get the single refunded. Is this right? If I had bought a saver I would get 100% refunded but because my journey was 2x advance I only get 50% of the value of my journey?

Should I appeal?

 

[bb21]

That's correct. The value of the compensation is limited by the fare paid for the ticket under Delay Repay.

I assume you weren't making a day return?

 

[Failed Unit]

That's correct. The value of the compensation is limited by the fare paid for the ticket under Delay Repay.

I assume you weren't making a day return?

Yes I was. But with 2x advances (I did attach both to GTR) so it wasn’t at real return such as a SVR or CDR

 

[bb21]

Not knowing what you put in the claim I can't really say much, but in these circumstances, if you send them an email instead of filling in the claim form, and explain briefly what impact it had on your plans for the day (if there were any), all of the TOCs I am familiar with (unfortunately not including GTR here) are willing to consider refunding both single tickets where the impact is significant (which a 2-hour delay on a day return will generally qualify) as if it were a return ticket held.

Of course there is no guarantee as it is more a goodwill measure than an entitlement laid down in black and white but this is perhaps worth bearing in mind for next time.

 

[221129]

You had a single ticket so get the relevant compensation is based on that.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not knowing what you put in the claim I can't really say much, but in these circumstances, if you send them an email instead of filling in the claim form, and explain briefly what impact it had on your plans for the day (if there were any), all of the TOCs I am familiar with (unfortunately not including GTR here) are willing to consider refunding both single tickets where the impact is significant (which a 2-hour delay on a day return will generally qualify) as if it were a return ticket held.

Of course there is no guarantee as it is more a goodwill measure than an entitlement laid down in black and white but this is perhaps worth bearing in mind for next time.

I agree and thanks. The saver return gives more security if things go wrong. Even a slight delay is a 2 hour delay because of the infrequent service in Lincolnshire. The 2x advance purchase tickets in this case were false economy.

 

[Failed Unit]

You had a single ticket so get the relevant compensation is based on that.

I sort of agree but if I had a saver return I would have got 100% of that ticket refunded. The out and back. The fact I made the same journey with 2x advance seems harsh, but we have seen these problems with splitting as well.

Glad I didn’t split at Peterborough. In this case I assume I would be entitled to nothing.

 

[Belperpete]

Thanks. Normally I have had a taxi because the missed train was the last train. In fact I seem to travel by taxi more then train.

I have put a delay repay in with GTR for a 140 minute delay. See what comes back.

But I have also asked East Midlands trains for their official policy. I really feel for them as they had nothing to do with delay and it will impact their business.

Let us know what they say. From what I have been told, EM policy is that they will arrange a taxi if you have to wait more than an hour for the next train. So, regardless of how late the train you arrived on is, if at the time you ask it is 60 minutes or less until the next onward train, the answer will be no. However, at Derby station at least, they phone the control of whichever TOC's train was late arriving to get authority for booking the taxi, so apply that TOC's policy. I presume that the late-running TOC pays for the taxi.

 

[bb21]

I sort of agree but if I had a saver return I would have got 100% of that ticket refunded. The out and back. The fact I made the same journey with 2x advance seems harsh, but we have seen these problems with splitting as well.

That AIUI is part of the thinking behind it. The industry encourages/prefers advance booking for longer-distance journeys, which if treated differently to return fares effectively reduces customer rights in a sense, especially on day return journeys.

The bottom line is that Delay Repay is a relatively insignificant sum in the grand scheme of things, where a customer is already significantly inconvenienced, it is a very small price to pay to give them a little bit more compensation in return for a much happier/less annoyed customer (who would probably feel a little less ripped off too ).

 

[bb21]

Let us know what they say. From what I have been told, EM policy is that they will arrange a taxi if you have to wait more than an hour for the next train. So, regardless of how late the train you arrived on is, if at the time you ask it is 60 minutes or less until the next onward train, the answer will be no. However, at Derby station at least, they phone the control of whichever TOC's train was late arriving to get authority for booking the taxi, so apply that TOC's policy. I presume that the late-running TOC pays for the taxi.

TOCs generally do not pay each other's taxi bill in one-off cases, but there may be local exceptions. (During big disruption it is normally different.) If the responsible TOC says no, then the initiating TOC could either turn around and say "sorry" or still pay for one out of their own pocket in the name of good customer service, again depending on local practice.

 

[Failed Unit]

I got a reply back from East Midlands trains. A bit of a perfect storm.

It is their discretion to arrange onwards travel. But not mandatory unless it is the last train of the day.

LNER control should have informed EMT control what they had done so we would have got met at Lincoln. However as significant disruption was taking place they got us moving north.

The member of railway staff I spoke to was at the ticket office. That person didn’t have the authority to organise a taxi. Had I spoken to the guard on the Peterborough- Lincoln service again the outcome may be different.

So EMT (who didn’t cause any issues themselves) didn’t do anything wrong. But would have acted differently if the issue had made it to there control. Note to myself next time find some platform staff rather than the ticket office.