Long-Distance passenger driver runs

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Turbostar

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Ok, here's a question. How often do passenger drivers change on the long distance runs, i.e. GNER ECML London-Newcastle/Scotland, Virgin WCML London-Glasgow? Do they change at set stations, or when they've done a certain number of hours?

Mart
 
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devon_metro

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I would guess it's at a set station, a bit like catering. For example. Most catering passing through Devon and going to Penzance will get topped up at Newton Abbot.
 

voyagerdude220

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Mart 158741 said:
Ok, here's a question. How often do passenger drivers change on the long distance runs, i.e. GNER ECML London-Newcastle/Scotland, Virgin WCML London-Glasgow? Do they change at set stations, or when they've done a certain number of hours?

Mart
VWC seem to do

London to Preston
Preston to Glasgow

For a typical VXC run, say Glasgow to Penzance via the WCML, I think it would be:

Glasgow to Preston
Preston to Birmingham
Birmingham to Bristol Temple M
Bristol Temple M to Plymouth
Plymouth to Penzance

I have seen a driver change happen at Lancaster before though northbound, on a Manchester to Edinburgh Voyager. (It's a bit Ironic that the MSTS NWE route begins at Manchester Picc, and ends at Lancaster though)


As allready said, it should be set/booked trains.

Common sense says that drivers would drive along a signed route, until they don't know any more of it.
 

66526

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There are specific diagrams for each depot for where the driver gets relief etc. The driver could be relieved before his knowledge of the line runs out simply because it is easier. Also bear in mind that the drivers need plenty of breaks due to the nature of thier job.
 

Jim

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voyagerdude220 said:
Glasgow to Preston
Preston to Birmingham
Birmingham to Bristol Temple M
Bristol Temple M to Plymouth
Plymouth to Penzance
Regarding that service, you are correct
 

yorkie

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voyagerdude220 said:
Common sense says that drivers would drive along a signed route, until they don't know any more of it.
Not sure I understand that, but I think that drivers would generally sign a bit beyond where they'd normally book off, in case of late running or other unusual circumstances. (This would particularly be the case on single lines - for example on the WHL the Fort William drivers would usually swap trains at Rannoch, but they'd know the route to - at the very least - Bridge of Orchy, so the changeover could be done there in the event of the n/b train being late, and vice-versa in the other direction).
 

Coxster

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I know the old IC 'Royal Scot' (which was non-stop to Preston) had it's driver changeover at Preston. Not sure what happens now, whether it's the same or not on normal VWC services.
 

66526

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Mallard and Flying Scotsman have got corridor connections from the cab through the tender to the coaches. This meant that they could do the long non stop journies whilst being able to change the crew over.
 

Tomnick

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In answer to Yorkie's post, I doubt that drivers usually sign beyond the limit of their depot's 'normal' work - though the WHL might be an exception, and it wouldn't surprise me if Fort William drivers signed the whole route into Glasgow, and indeed even had a booked job or two that far? The situation where drivers 'swap' trains is pretty rare though, and they'd usually be relieved at a location where there'd probably be a spare driver available - and would have at least a few minutes before picking up their next train.

One example, just out of interest, that I can think of - albeit on freight - is/was the Immingham to Jarrow tank train. I'm not sure whether the same driver works the return working, another train, or comes back on the cushions - he's booked to travel to Barnetby by taxi from Immingham, and relieve the driver who's brought the train over the short journey from Immingham. The reason? If he worked the train right through from Immingham, he'd go over his 'hours'.
 

66526

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Thing is thought mate, if something happened and he was over his hours then the sh*t would hit the fan... :( The ammount of concentration involved and the very nature of the job nessesitates these breaks for a reason.
 

Lewisham2221

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As with road driving jobs (i.e bus/coach/lorry), I would expect that driver changeover points are fixed based on the location of traincrew depots and the timetabled journey time plus a bit of extra time to account for delays etc (so a driver swap may be scheduled for 3 and a half hours into teh trip even though a driver is permitted 4 hours, in case any delays should occur en-route). As relief crews are only likely to be available at certain pre-defined locations, I doubt there would be any point for a driver to sign 'a bit extra', as if he continued to that location, there probably wouldn't be a relief driver available!
 

Craig

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Lewisham2221 said:
I doubt there would be any point for a driver to sign 'a bit extra', as if he continued to that location, there probably wouldn't be a relief driver available!
Not drivers, but this reminds me of a trip from Paignton to London a couple of years ago.

I was on a train from Paignton to Paddington which was supposed to have a guard change at Exeter, but when we arrived there was no relief guard available. The guard from Paignton offered to take the train onto Westbury, as he signed the route and was under hours, while FGW control would send a relief guard from Bristol to meet us at Westbury by taxi.
So rather than being delayed we arrived at Westbury more or less on time, all fine so far. Unfortuanly FGW control neglected to tell the relief guard that our train was formed of a 47 and Mk2's, which she didn't sign. So the train still ended up being cancelled and running ECS to OOC.

However had the Bristol guard signed Mk2 stock or the train had been an HST we would have got to Paddington without much of a delay. So things like this can be useful sometimes.
 

Jim

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I do like the fact that on FGW, Bristol Crew only sign as far was Westbury, but Gloucester crew sign to Southampton, bit odd as Bristol is closer...
 
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Fort William drivers sign to Ardlui I think, Oban drivers sign all the way to GLQ and GLQ drivers up to Tulloch i think ?

The catering crew on that Glasgow-Plymouth run would be on until Birmingham N St, also Edinburgh VXC crews sign to Leeds
 

Tomnick

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yorkie said:
Don't Edinburgh-based GNER crews sign to York, but usually swap at Newcastle?
They've probably got one or two booked jobs, if not more, to York or even Donny? That is, of course, the best way of maintaining route knowledge anyway!
 

TheSlash

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Fratton Traincrew used to be the worst for change over problems. Alot of services change crews in Fratton up platform, so if the train arrives at Fratton and no relief crew have arrived {ie displaced crews during service disruption} everything grinds to a halt.
 

scottmccrory

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On the WCML, drivers on Euston - Glasgow services change at Preston. At Preston TCD, staff are split into three links:

1 = All of WCML
2 = Southern end (Preston - Euston)
3 = Northern end (Preston - Glasgow / Edinburgh)

Of course, they learn all the necessary diversions too.

So whenever you're travelling West Coast, you'll always see a changeover at Preston! I think the other VWC TCD's are at Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime St (they sign to Holyhead), Euston, Glasgow Central and of course, Preston.

HTH, Scott
 

voyagerdude220

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I've allways noticed that VXC Voyager drivers often swap at Derby (From Birmingham N St) for some reason. What confuses me about this, is the shortness in journey time/ mileage worked?

Also, I've seen on a drivers eye view HST video, that there was a requirement for 2 drivers on a HST which travelled at 125 mph in any part of the shift. (I think for safety reasons, and the 2nd driver would end their shift at the next main station, once linespeeds didn't get as high as 125 mph)

If that is true, how come VT drivers along the WCML, and parts of the ECML, have the usual one driver on their own?

Having said this, the safety rule might've been set many years ago, and been ruled unnecessary by now.
 

ChrisCooper

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I've allways noticed that VXC Voyager drivers often swap at Derby (From Birmingham N St) for some reason. What confuses me about this, is the shortness in journey time/ mileage worked?

Also, I've seen on a drivers eye view HST video, that there was a requirement for 2 drivers on a HST which travelled at 125 mph in any part of the shift. (I think for safety reasons, and the 2nd driver would end their shift at the next main station, once linespeeds didn't get as high as 125 mph)

If that is true, how come VT drivers along the WCML, and parts of the ECML, have the usual one driver on their own?

Having said this, the safety rule might've been set many years ago, and been ruled unnecessary by now.
Double manning is no longer required on any trains. I don't know when it changed, but I think it was the early 90's. Before then, double manning was required on trains travelling at over 110mph, and earlier still, 100mph.
 
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