Long term implications of suspending ticket checks

ForTheLoveOf

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It depends, if the destination station has no barriers/checks, but there is an open and staffed ticket office, then you have two options:
  1. Leave the station without buying a ticket, because there is nothing stopping you and you can get away with it, or
  2. Go to the ticket office and purchase a ticket for the journey you have just made, because it’s the right/moral thing to do.
Of course if the destination is not staffed (and doesn’t have a ticket machine that can issue tickets from other origin stations), then all you can do is leave without paying, as the railways haven’t given you an opportunity to purchase a ticket for the journey.

Unfortunately, based on some of the threads on here, attempting to take option 2 seems to carry the risk of being passed over to an RPI and incorrectly issued with a penalty fare (or worse).
The idea you should live your entire life entirely according to morals is simply not feasible. Anyone who thinks that is possible must be living in cloud cuckoo land. The rail industry, in particular, shows no qualms in disregarding what is moral if it is more operationally convenient for them, or is cheaper, or simply fits with what they're wont to do.

For as long as this remains the case I struggle to see that it can be seen as immoral (for what little it even matters) to choose the most sensible option. Even if that means choosing the above option 1 rather than option 2.
 
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nanstallon

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The idea you should live your entire life entirely according to morals is simply not feasible. Anyone who thinks that is possible must be living in cloud cuckoo land. The rail industry, in particular, shows no qualms in disregarding what is moral if it is more operationally convenient for them, or is cheaper, or simply fits with what they're wont to do.

For as long as this remains the case I struggle to see that it can be seen as immoral (for what little it even matters) to choose the most sensible option. Even if that means choosing the above option 1 rather than option 2.
A good deed (option 2 in this situation) seldom goes unpunished. The safest bet is to go option 1 and give a similar amount to charity. There is usuall a charity box in the pub.
 

Leisurefirst

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c2c kind of made my blood boil today.
We travelled by tube 20 minutes plus to get to Liverpool Street for a train to Leigh-On-Sea and just before we got there I realised I hadn't brought our Two Together railcard to go with the tickets I had already bought to be collected from a TVM. (Normally I use my Annual Gold Card which is always on me but I got it refunded and this was our first NR journey since the travel restrictions so it totally went out of my head to bring it.)
We had a reservation for a meal booked and thought I would try contacting c2c before exiting Liverpool Street Underground to see if they would perhaps authorise travel or suggest something else like buying two full price tickets and refunding them later.
All of this knowing that the chances of actually having our railcard or tickets checked would be practically zero.
The response which tbf came pretty quickly was just that we could travel but might get a penalty fare.
Fair enough, all my fault and all that.
I went all the way back (thank you to the understanding member of staff at my local tube station who let me out and back in to make the short journey home) and made it back just about in an hour thankfully with no oyster penalties and was able to get a later table reservation.
However the level of no mask compliance (and from the delightful conversations overhead by the sudden explosion in teenagers travelling compared to the many times I had done this journey in the past) free travel really got my goat.
Quite what the point was of having the Leigh-On-Sea gates open on the way back (before 5pm) even though a member of staff was on the gateline is anybody's guess.
The platform had an array of little charmers.
I wonder why...
 

Unstoppable

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Ticket checks on board an early morning Scotland to London West Coast service today and in Preston ticket checks are on going for platform 1 and 2
 

Chriso

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Observations from Sat and a return Waterloo to Alton outbound direct and return via Guildford. Gates working at London Waterloo (both ways), Woking, Aldershot and Guildford. No onboard checks still though. London St Pancras and Mill Hill Broadway gates also working on Thameslink
 

Class195

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Interesting to see Northern’s mobile revenue team On the platform at Leeds this morning.

Obviously it’s a barriered station 90% of the time, so the fact they were catching so many out on the platforms tells me that a lot more people than previously thought are getting on trains at stations with no barriers and then using Leeds to change trains. Interesting.
 

johntea

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I had a weird Preston related change at the weekend, had travelled there from Manchester on the Northern service to Windermere (but heading to Morecambe so would have been departing at Lancaster) but the guard announced there would be a unit swap at Preston departing from another platform involving the bridge and therefore revenue protection, who basically saw a flood of Lancaster tickets and helpfully suggested an Avanti West Coast service calling at Lancaster was pretty much just arriving on Platform 3 anyway so no need to change onto the Northern alternative unit anyway!
 

Chriso

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Just had 3 ticket checks in one day.......

On a day in Belgium. The network was busy but with lots of security enforcing masks. Meanwhile back here the trains are dead thanks to ridiculous gov advise and you can still travel around the entire country without a ticket. Total f**kin farce
 

Huntergreed

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Travelled on 4 trains yesterday (TPE Lockerbie - Carlisle, Avanti Carlisle - Penrith and return), no ticket checks, but guard came around checking masks on 3 out of the 4 journeys
 

LowLevel

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Travelled on 4 trains yesterday (TPE Lockerbie - Carlisle, Avanti Carlisle - Penrith and return), no ticket checks, but guard came around checking masks on 3 out of the 4 journeys
I keep having a giggle to myself about the checking masks thing. Everyone seems to think we are wandering around checking masks. I've had several people say as much to me. We are requested to engage and inform with people, if we feel inclined, who aren't wearing a face covering. The main priority for the walk throughs are actually things like security checks and answering customer queries - IE what we normally do. Instead it provokes a flurry of people pulling masks up without my even making eye contact. Mask checks, such as they are, are down to the Old Bill :lol:
 

johntea

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Something I've not seen before, at Leeds they now seem to have kitted out some of the gateline staff with tablet computers that they can just tap to open a selected gate wirelessly!
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Something I've not seen before, at Leeds they now seem to have kitted out some of the gateline staff with tablet computers that they can just tap to open a selected gate wirelessly!
Sounds like something that should have happened a long time ago, certainly compared to the trudge over to the gateline control screen that's long been required in most places. Admittedly it's liable to have some folk try and press the buttons on the tablets to get out...
 

Bletchleyite

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Sounds like something that should have happened a long time ago, certainly compared to the trudge over to the gateline control screen that's long been required in most places. Admittedly it's liable to have some folk try and press the buttons on the tablets to get out...
I still think the staff should be at a well-signed designated wide gate at one or both ends. Then that problem doesn't really occur. Having them stood around randomly is not an improvement.
 

PennineSuperb

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At Leeds they have split the barrier in half. Looking towards the platforms, left for entry, right for exit. Only every other barrier is in use to aid social distancing, and staff are now bang in the middle behind a plastic screen.
 

Starmill

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Sounds like something that should have happened a long time ago, certainly compared to the trudge over to the gateline control screen that's long been required in most places. Admittedly it's liable to have some folk try and press the buttons on the tablets to get out...
A staff smarcard, a gate pass, a key and a quick release button are also commonly used in addition to the screen.

An app (or literally just a web page which is what I think it is?) not necessarily need to be used.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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A staff smarcard, a gate pass, a key and a quick release button are also commonly used in addition to the screen.

An app (or literally just a web page which is what I think it is?) not necessarily need to be used.
I've seen all of these methods employed, but the screens seem to be in sole use at certain stations, for reasons I cannot ascertain.
 

johntea

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Rather amazingly the ticket barriers were actually in use at Kings Cross this morning, although maybe that is something more common since LNER I don’t really know...
 

Starmill

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Do you mean there were a lot, or a significant percentage, or the number was low and thus "good"? A bit ambiguous!
As well as the ambiguity of whether or not someone who allegedly hasn't got a ticket has been "caught" doing something wrong or not.
 

Mcr Warrior

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As well as the ambiguity of whether or not someone who allegedly hasn't got a ticket has been "caught" doing something wrong or not.
Expect to see a rash of newbies posting on the "Disputes and Prosecutions" sub-forum in the near future... ;)
 

Class195

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Do you mean there were a lot, or a significant percentage, or the number was low and thus "good"? A bit ambiguous!
From the people getting off at Shipley (I counted 11) and five didn’t have tickets and were accompanied by the Northern revenue team and the two BTP officers into the ticket office.

At Keighley, it was four from about 16.

So yes, whilst not major numbers when you factor in percentages this proves quite a few people are still riding around with no tickets.

I’ll give one of the revenue protection staff at Shipley his due, he’s very athletic and was seen sprinting between platforms 1/2 and 3/4/5 doing ticket checks.

Just lack week before the 11:03 to Carlisle was due to arrive he caught two elderly gentlemen in walking attire trying to board without tickets and were subsequently denied travel.

Some might feel this is harsh but when the ticket office is open and you have two ticket machines (platform one and five) there really is no excuse not to pay.
 

KevinTurvey

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I have had 2 ticket checks in 2 days on Merseyrail services, probably for the first time this has happened this year. It is not being done by train staff but by the bylaw enforcement/BTP-lite officers (those in the black uniforms, whatever they are called now)
 
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I have had 2 ticket checks in 2 days on Merseyrail services, probably for the first time this has happened this year. It is not being done by train staff but by the bylaw enforcement/BTP-lite officers (those in the black uniforms, whatever they are called now)
Rail Enforcement Officers is the term employed by Govia Thameslink
 

Class195

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I have had 2 ticket checks in 2 days on Merseyrail services, probably for the first time this has happened this year. It is not being done by train staff but by the bylaw enforcement/BTP-lite officers (those in the black uniforms, whatever they are called now)
Do Merseyrail have penalty fares?
 

ChiefPlanner

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Travelled St Albans -St Pancras - Faversham and return today (part HS1) today with tight ticket barrier checks on all occasions , as well as on observed passing stations such as Strood.

Well worth doing , as all trains were very decently loaded with passengers enjoying the service and the weather.(yes the mask wearing was tightly reiterated by all staff) - a good experience. Other friends travelled Winchmore Hill - London Victoria - Faversham and said much the same.

I get the impression that staff are happy to see people out and about on trains and stations. Certainly the ones I make the effort to talk (and thank) to.
 

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