Long term implications of suspending ticket checks?

[Skimpot flyer]

As a key worker, I’ve been commuting as normal since mid-April (after being on leave) and have not experienced a single on-board ticket inspection since the lockdown began. This includes travel on London Overground, on which random inspections were a fairly regular occurrence. The barriers are in use at both ends of my outbound journey, though the barriers at my home station are usually open at night when I get back.
I did see a GTR employee in uniform on one day in late-April, but he appeared to be travelling as a passenger. I did remember getting my ticket out of my wallet, when I thought he was about to ask to see it. But I was immediately struck by the thought ‘how is a check compatible with social distancing guidelines?’

 

[johntea]

Leeds and Harrogate barriers in full operation, although to maintain distancing only half of them in use, and at Leeds they seem to have a central perspex 'box' for the staff to stand in the middle of the barriers now which can be a challenge to gain their attention should your ticket not be accepted by the barriers!

Seen the odd RPI contractor at some of the unstaffed stations, but no on board checks - I would imagine they may start to resume w/c 6th July

One challenge I do see is the large touch screen TVMs at unstaffed stations, I suspect many people don't want to use them as they won't be regularly cleaned throughout the day

 

[Horizon22]

Passenger numbers are so low that this will at the moment be a spit in the ocean. When they go back up it will become a big issue, though.

Hopefully by the time numbers rise, there will also be an disproportionate increase in the types of travellers who generally pay.

 

[robbeech]

The last four times I've traveled on the Robin Hood line there have been no ticket checks, the guard doesn't even come out of the rear cab unless its to open and close the doors etc. This was before lock down and after the franchise change.

Over the last few years in terms of ticket checks on that line I’d say I’ve had a ticket checked 50% of the time heading in the up direction towards Nottingham, but probably less than 20% away from Nottingham (regardless of starting point). I’ve only had 1 check between Whitwell and Worksop in the last few years and it’s a journey I’ve done at least weekly. Generally the guards that check the tickets on that line mostly seem to be one that contribute to this forum, in other words, they have a keen interest in doing their job.

I haven’t been on a train since mid March but I have witnessed people not buying tickets and have seen text based conversations (public ones) suggesting not to because they don’t get checked.
That said it’s important to remember that walking past a ticket machine is little evidence they haven’t bought a ticket. More and more tickets in electronic format are used nowadays anyway and most operators are encouraging this even more at the moment to minimise risk so those who would have bought a ticket at the machine may not be doing so currently. It will be interesting to see how much the portion of e-tickets sold as a percentage of all tickets has gone up/down recently and also interesting to see if that number ever goes back down again or whether this situation has been a catalyst for encouraging the use of electronic ticket types.

 

[Chriso]

Looks like there have been some more police operations on the North Kent line but not sure if revenue duties were also conducted

Ten people arrested in police operation at south east London train stations

A total of 10 people have been arrested during police operations at south east London train stations, and a number of dangerous weapons taken off…

www.newsshopper.co.uk

 

[Starmill]

Looks like there have been some more police operations on the North Kent line but not sure if revenue duties were also conducted

Ten people arrested in police operation at south east London train stations

A total of 10 people have been arrested during police operations at south east London train stations, and a number of dangerous weapons taken off…

www.newsshopper.co.uk

It's absolutely amazing what quite unrelated crimes some people are discovered to have committed simply through their act of refusing to pay for a train journey.

 

[Rockhopper]

Over the last few years in terms of ticket checks on that line I’d say I’ve had a ticket checked 50% of the time heading in the up direction towards Nottingham, but probably less than 20% away from Nottingham (regardless of starting point). I’ve only had 1 check between Whitwell and Worksop in the last few years and it’s a journey I’ve done at least weekly. Generally the guards that check the tickets on that line mostly seem to be one that contribute to this forum, in other words, they have a keen interest in doing their job.

I haven’t been on a train since mid March but I have witnessed people not buying tickets and have seen text based conversations (public ones) suggesting not to because they don’t get checked.
That said it’s important to remember that walking past a ticket machine is little evidence they haven’t bought a ticket. More and more tickets in electronic format are used nowadays anyway and most operators are encouraging this even more at the moment to minimise risk so those who would have bought a ticket at the machine may not be doing so currently. It will be interesting to see how much the portion of e-tickets sold as a percentage of all tickets has gone up/down recently and also interesting to see if that number ever goes back down again or whether this situation has been a catalyst for encouraging the use of electronic ticket types.

I usually travel on Saturday from Shirebrook to Notts and there is an expectation from people getting on there that you can buy tickets on the train and that certainly used to be the case. I think many of them just don't understand how the ticket machines work! Having said that its not unusual for the machines on both platforms to be out of order. If you leave Nottingham station by the Parliament Street exit there are no barriers and its rare to see anyone there asking for tickets.

 

[robbeech]

I usually travel on Saturday from Shirebrook to Notts and there is an expectation from people getting on there that you can buy tickets on the train and that certainly used to be the case. I think many of them just don't understand how the ticket machines work! Having said that its not unusual for the machines on both platforms to be out of order. If you leave Nottingham station by the Parliament Street exit there are no barriers and its rare to see anyone there asking for tickets.

The machines on those stations have been there a few years now and there are a number of notices. They are grossly unreliable or at least have been in the past. Without wishing to stray off topic, it’s the inconsistency that causes the belief that it’s always ok to buy on board. Most guards will sell a ticket and not say another word, and take their (justifiable) commission. Both this and the reliability issue does lead to people ignoring them and buying on the train. However, I don’t know if machine reliability has had an effect on people buying tickets during the pandemic though and I don’t know if lines with notably unreliable machines have been given more or less attention to ticket checks during this time either.

 

[trentside]

It's absolutely amazing what quite unrelated crimes some people are discovered to have committed simply through their act of refusing to pay for a train journey.

It’s happened to me a few times now. I’ve rung for BTP assistance or brought a ticketless traveller to a barriered station who has refused to pay but then subsequently got arrested for other matters. If they’d paid their fare, they’d have walked away.

 

[steamybrian]

During recent travels around the South East to visit elderly relatives I have only found two stations with ticket barriers in operation- Guildford and Dover Priory. At Guildford the staff seemed more concerned that I had taken my face mask off after leaving the train and was walking along the platform without wearing it. I suspect that of the few passengers travelling not many had tickets.

 

[Chriso]

Of my observations most gatelines seem to be working with minimum staff and no rpi’s. The one I don’t understand is GWR who seem to have lots of revenue staff about but most gates open. I have seen this all the way from Paddington to Exeter & Bristol. Not had any on train checks but did encounter a block in Hull last month and some WMT revenue checking all tickets at the entrance of the new Wolverhampton station

 

[SlimJim1694]

Looks like there have been some more police operations on the North Kent line but not sure if revenue duties were also conducted

Ten people arrested in police operation at south east London train stations

A total of 10 people have been arrested during police operations at south east London train stations, and a number of dangerous weapons taken off…

www.newsshopper.co.uk

Good!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

My friends in Brighton said during last week’s hot weather, the crowds of people arriving into the station by train were not required to pass through the ticket barriers, but instead channelled out via large gates to either side of the barriers, so that departing passengers were segregated from arrivals. I guess the pay-if-challenged brigade would still need to buy a ticket to go back home, though?

 

[416GSi]

I had the pleasure of living and working in Munich Germany in the early 2000's where I used a combination of their S-Bahn and U-Bahn to get to work and back. There they don't have a barrier or check tickets when getting on or off, but rely on an honesty policy. But once in a while plain-clothed ticket inspectors descend on to train on mass and check every single person. If you don't have the correct ticket they will arrest detain you and take you to court. There are no if or but they come down really hard on offenders.

My experience of this when the 6 or 7 times it happened to me over the 4 years living there, most people had tickets because they knew about the policy and were basically honest. I did see someone being arrested for fare evasion on one occasion... they didn't look happy!

 

[Iskra]

For the first time ever today, I had my ticket checked at Sheffield station.

Although it was a bit pointless, as it wasn't very thorough as it was from a distance and any old rail ticket would have got me through.

 

[yorksrob]

For the first time ever today, I had my ticket checked at Sheffield station.

Although it was a bit pointless, as it wasn't very thorough as it was from a distance and any old rail ticket would have got me through.

I must admit, I don't recall ever having had a ticket check at Sheffield.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Regrettably - and going back a long time , the North London Line had a terrible reputation for ticketless travel - so we did some "zero tolerance" campaigns on Friday nights - plain clothes , RPI coverage and hefty BTP input.

They picked up a huge trawl of wanted people , bail evasions , drugs , knives etc - the best one was a bloke I stopped at Willesden HL - just released on licence , refused to pay even a couple of quid - abused the staff (but we had BTP nicely hidden a couple of yards away) - and there in a flash) , the bike he had was nicked , a search indicated class "A" drugs on him. Guess where he went back to. Calling the BTP "Dibble" did not help.

There were several other incidents like that. Carpenders Park yielded a good haul.

I even solely did a full ticket check on the 2337 Euston to Watford - emboldened by the evening success. Amazing how many people got off at Kilburn High Road (after a PA announcement there was a full check taking place) , and also at Kensal Green after another PA call at Queens Park.

 

[MalaiseForever]

I had reason to travel between Crewe, Manchester, Leeds and London last week. Ticket barriers were in operation at Crewe, Leeds, Manchester Victoria and Piccadilly, Kings Cross and Euston. I never saw any staff onboard trains though, understandably.

 

[Butts]

I don't understand why barriers are OK to use at the moment, surely mitigating the spread of the virus by reducing the amount of things people have to touch is a better idea?

If the barriers were all open they wouldn't get any money at all on Scotrail in my Area.

The Guards are invisible (apart from opening and closing the doors)

Talking about Falkirk to Haymarket / Waverley

 

[glenbogle]

Unless you are using a Scotrail service with a barrier at the arrival or departure station you’ll get a free ride. A lot of unstaffed stations don’t even have ticket machines especially in the Highlands, you’d certainly get from Helensburgh Upper to Mallaig/Oban or Muir of Ord to Wick or Kyle for free as things stand. You can’t even buy a ticket with the Scotrail app as you need to pick up your ticket from a station with a TVM.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

It's absolutely amazing what quite unrelated crimes some people are discovered to have committed simply through their act of refusing to pay for a train journey.

Yes, I had this once, a chap refused to buy a ticket on a evening service out of Manchester going to Stalybridge. Despite repeated requests he simply laughed and carried on playing with his phone. An off duty BTP officer heared what was going on and intervened but received the same brush off. When Stalybridge was announced the chap got up and went to leave but found himself quickly pinned up against the station wall and cuffed. It later transpired he was wanted on warrant by Met Police on assault and credit card fraud amongst others! Bet he wished he paid the £3.60....

 

[haggishunter]

Unless you are using a Scotrail service with a barrier at the arrival or departure station you’ll get a free ride. A lot of unstaffed stations don’t even have ticket machines especially in the Highlands, you’d certainly get from Helensburgh Upper to Mallaig/Oban or Muir of Ord to Wick or Kyle for free as things stand. You can’t even buy a ticket with the Scotrail app as you need to pick up your ticket from a station with a TVM.

With a smartcard since last year you can load tickets onto your smartcard without visiting a TVM or card reader using the App and an iPhone or Android phone. Smartcard still can't cope with 'Tyndrum Stations' though!

 

[Horizon22]

It's absolutely amazing what quite unrelated crimes some people are discovered to have committed simply through their act of refusing to pay for a train journey.

Typical for Plumstead and Slade Green - regular stings there.

 

[greyman42]

on York station when the eastbound TPX has arrived in P4 where there have been a couple of staff waiting across the platform.

It was the same today for a westbound service.

 

[_toommm_]

I must admit, I don't recall ever having had a ticket check at Sheffield.

They’ve been there pretty consistently for the past month now. They’re stood in-Between the pillars just before the staircase.

 

[route101]

No checks at all on 3 Scotrail services i was on .

 

[johnnychips]

First check ever today at Doncaster getting to the platform apart from St Leger day.

 

[43 302]

I have seen ticket checks in place at stations but not on a train yet, there doesnt seem to be anything stopping me travelling from Bristol to London on a one pound Clifton Down ticket.

 

[Class195]

Northern have had ticket checks at Shipley and if the person hasn’t been able to produce a ticket, then they have been taken into the ticket office to purchase one.

 

[robbeech]

My friends in Brighton said during last week’s hot weather, the crowds of people arriving into the station by train were not required to pass through the ticket barriers, but instead channelled out via large gates to either side of the barriers, so that departing passengers were segregated from arrivals. I guess the pay-if-challenged brigade would still need to buy a ticket to go back home, though?

One of the benefits (to the operators) of having Day singles only 10p cheaper than a day return. Infact, I would think that they use this (justifiably perhaps) as an excuse for keeping it this way in many areas. In days of old If I get a Worksop Sheffield day return I’d have a ticket check on the way to Sheffield Almost every time and a check on the way back probably a third of the time, less in the evening.

For the first time ever today, I had my ticket checked at Sheffield station.

Although it was a bit pointless, as it wasn't very thorough as it was from a distance and any old rail ticket would have got me through.

I must admit, I don't recall ever having had a ticket check at Sheffield.

There are many places where this is fairly normal. Leeds is a prime example, most bits of card with a hint of Orange will get you OUT of the gateline. Perhaps a little less on the way in.
Sheffield is a Station I use(d) frequently, it’s my nearest (I suppose it is equal to Nottingham in terms of time) larger interchange station. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have SEEN ticket checks on the platforms there, and have never had one myself. Meadowhall on the other hand, at least 50% of the time I’ve arrived / departed there.