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Long term implications of suspending ticket checks?

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yorksrob

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There are many places where this is fairly normal. Leeds is a prime example, most bits of card with a hint of Orange will get you OUT of the gateline. Perhaps a little less on the way in.
Sheffield is a Station I use(d) frequently, it’s my nearest (I suppose it is equal to Nottingham in terms of time) larger interchange station. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have SEEN ticket checks on the platforms there, and have never had one myself. Meadowhall on the other hand, at least 50% of the time I’ve arrived / departed there.

I've always looked at Leeds as the opposite as the barriers are never open (to the extent that they'd rather close off the South entrance altogether than have them open and unattended some of the time) so you always have to present a ticket of some sort. Obviously you can never tell how closely they will be inspected !
 
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Iskra

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Northern have had ticket checks at Shipley and if the person hasn’t been able to produce a ticket, then they have been taken into the ticket office to purchase one.

That was happening at Meadowhall this morning, including a bloke who had arrived from Chapeltown without a ticket. There's supposed to be a penalty fare system in place. What's the point in having that if it doesn't get used, people will continue to chance it if it isn't implemented.
 

Iskra

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One of the benefits (to the operators) of having Day singles only 10p cheaper than a day return. Infact, I would think that they use this (justifiably perhaps) as an excuse for keeping it this way in many areas. In days of old If I get a Worksop Sheffield day return I’d have a ticket check on the way to Sheffield Almost every time and a check on the way back probably a third of the time, less in the evening.



There are many places where this is fairly normal. Leeds is a prime example, most bits of card with a hint of Orange will get you OUT of the gateline. Perhaps a little less on the way in.
Sheffield is a Station I use(d) frequently, it’s my nearest (I suppose it is equal to Nottingham in terms of time) larger interchange station. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have SEEN ticket checks on the platforms there, and have never had one myself. Meadowhall on the other hand, at least 50% of the time I’ve arrived / departed there.

They have checked my ticket on entering Sheffield station everyday this week. I've only seen RPI's at Meadowhall this morning and yesterday afternoon, but I do agree they are usually there. The rail network is getting slowly busier too I've noticed this week.
 

reb0118

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As a passenger I would prefer to see the Guard, Conductor, OBM or Revenue staff walking the train I feel safer and happier when I do.

Thank you. Even though I'm not checking tickets I still try to walk through the train from time to time so at least I'm visible. Where possible I still work the doors from the saloon - isolating a safe working zone in that locality.
 

jonnyfan

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That was happening at Meadowhall this morning, including a bloke who had arrived from Chapeltown without a ticket. There's supposed to be a penalty fare system in place. What's the point in having that if it doesn't get used, people will continue to chance it if it isn't implemented.
Penalty fares have been suspended since the start of the crisis, they thankfully come back into force on Monday 6th July
 

Class195

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That was happening at Meadowhall this morning, including a bloke who had arrived from Chapeltown without a ticket. There's supposed to be a penalty fare system in place. What's the point in having that if it doesn't get used, people will continue to chance it if it isn't implemented.

I’ve seen the TPE revenue team catch 100s at Hull recently.

They used to be positioned off the platforms by the entrances but have now started checking on the platforms to stop those jumping off northern services from Bridlington just running onto the usually six car Manchester train.
 

Iskra

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What about the penalty fare leaflets that have been on every seat on TPE services?

I've been travelling on Northern all week. Today was my first time on TP since before the lockdown and there were no notices that I saw on my 5 minute journey, only ones saying which seats to use.
 

Class195

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I've been travelling on Northern all week. Today was my first time on TP since before the lockdown and there were no notices that I saw on my 5 minute journey, only ones saying which seats to use.

It would be the yellow penalty fare leaflets.

The guard was walking up and down putting them on the seats and tables.

Probably a tactic to get people to buy a ticket online.
 

Iskra

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It would be the yellow penalty fare leaflets.

The guard was walking up and down putting them on the seats and tables.

Probably a tactic to get people to buy a ticket online.

I didn't see any yellow ones, or a guard. But, as said I was only on the train between Sheffield and Meadowhall so not the longest journey!
 

Chriso

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Great news. It will be interesting to see next week if there is an increase in revenue activity
 

Jonny

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That was happening at Meadowhall this morning, including a bloke who had arrived from Chapeltown without a ticket. There's supposed to be a penalty fare system in place. What's the point in having that if it doesn't get used, people will continue to chance it if it isn't implemented.

Are you sure he didn't have a promise-to-pay?
 

ValleyLines142

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I've been attending several house viewings so I've been travelling around Bristol/Cheltenham a lot. The barriers at Cheltenham have been open all day. Bristol Parkway ones appear to be closed for the majority of the day, then seem to be open from about 6pm. Gloucester is hit and miss and seems to be random. Temple Meads has been fully gated all day. Same with Swindon.

In Cardiff, both Cardiff Central and Queen Street are fully gated, but the staff from Cathays (I work in Cathays so am quite friendly with them) have been transferred to Queen Street or Pontypridd, so it is open all day. Subsequently I imagine a lot of people have got off a stop early at Cathays and walked the 10 minutes down Park Place to avoid having to pay at Queen Street!
 

superjohn

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Barriers were in operation at Ipswich and Liverpool Street yesterday afternoon. This apparently came as a bit of a surprise to a bunch of kids who got off my London bound train at Ipswich!

No ticket checks on board but the buffet counter was operating and provided my first class freebies.
 

dk1

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Barriers were in operation at Ipswich and Liverpool Street yesterday afternoon. This apparently came as a bit of a surprise to a bunch of kids who got off my London bound train at Ipswich!

No ticket checks on board but the buffet counter was operating and provided my first class freebies.
You where lucky not to get a 745/1. There would be no 1st class accomodation and the trolley is static at the very Norwich end of the train ;)
 

pinkmarie80

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I travelled from Leicester to Newcastle via Peterborough and return the following day the other weekend and no-one checked my ticket either way. Barriers open at Leicester, Peterborough and Newcastle. The guard on the CrossCountry train was more interested in making announcements saying the BTP would be getting on to ‘have a chat with anyone not wearing a mask’ I was quite cross they didn’t- I pulled all my stuff out my rucksack looking for my proof of exemption paperwork (naturally it was right at the bottom :D) and I didn’t even need to show it!
 

PennineSuperb

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At the begining of the Covid - 19 fiasco train company's and unions came together and formed a 'Rail Industry Coronavirus Forum'

This included recommendations to stop guards checking tickets on trains, which most companies have decided to follow.

The company I worked for decided to ignore the advice originally but since has issued a safety notice to suspend ticket checks on trains and advised us not to walk through passenger saloons unless it is in association with our door duties, to carry out passenger alarm / door egree resets, to carry out train evacuation, to carry out first aid, to contact the Driver in an emergency and any other safety related duties. I personally like to have a check how people are getting on however this is loading dependant as I don't want to put myself at risk.
 

stj

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I live near an unstaffed station and its well known for its ability for fare dodging and well used because of it.I think the railways need a more modern and robust system as it would make fares cheaper for all,they must lose a fortune to dodgers.
 

Class195

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Does anyone know when they plan to start checking and selling tickets onboard services?

I can imagine a large number being caught out when this happens.
 

Hadders

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I hate ticketless travel but you do need to consider how much it costs to collect absolutely everything.

It would be interesting to hear your ideas.

One thing British Rail did do right from a revenue point of view is price returns at 10p or £1 more than a single. Seems bizarre in many respects but when it comes to revenue protection on a normal return journey there are 6 opportunities to check a passenger has paid:

At the departure station on the outward journey (e.g ticket barriers)
Onboard the outward journey
At the destination station on the outward journey
At the station at start of the return journey
Onboard the return journey
At the station at the end of the return journey

As long as one of these checks takes place then the railway collects the fare.

Of course other things like short fareing can happen but this isn’t a bad starting point.

Moving to single fare pricing does make this harder.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I hate ticketless travel but you do need to consider how much it costs to collect absolutely everything.

It would be interesting to hear your ideas.

One thing British Rail did do right from a revenue point of view is price returns at 10p or £1 more than a single.

From a revenue protection point of view yes. From pretty much every other point of view it's a rubbish way of doing things and is seriously disadvantageous to passengers. Not to mention massively complicating things like excesses, where if everything is priced as singles you are simply trading in what you have for what you want provided it also covers what you've done so far.
 

Hadders

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From a revenue protection point of view yes. From pretty much every other point of view it's a rubbish way of doing things and is seriously disadvantageous to passengers. Not to mention massively complicating things like excesses, where if everything is priced as singles you are simply trading in what you have for what you want provided it also covers what you've done so far.

Absolutely agree!
 

Tube driver

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Yes, I had this once, a chap refused to buy a ticket on a evening service out of Manchester going to Stalybridge. Despite repeated requests he simply laughed and carried on playing with his phone. An off duty BTP officer heared what was going on and intervened but received the same brush off. When Stalybridge was announced the chap got up and went to leave but found himself quickly pinned up against the station wall and cuffed. It later transpired he was wanted on warrant by Met Police on assault and credit card fraud amongst others! Bet he wished he paid the £3.60....
Ha! That’s nothing!

back in the day when I was a young green station assistant at Victoria they used to perform hits on stations where revenue, police and immigration would rock up and take over working the ‘way-out’ gates and stop everyone who ’pinged’ the gates or had no ticket. Revenue would do the necessary regarding the ticket whilst the police and, if needed, immigration would do their checks.

One bloke fails to notice the myriad of uniforms and tries to double shuffle through, immediately gets stopped and it turns out he’s wanted for questioning in relation to a murder! No idea what happened of it but for the sake of a £1.60 ticket he had no doubt a very uncomfortable conversation in a darkened room somewhere.

As the copper later said, if criminals had brains - we’d all be screwed!
 

Fokx

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What about the penalty fare leaflets that have been on every seat on TPE services?

TPE penalty fares either resumed today or on Monday (Can’t remember which from the top of my head) but these leaflets were being used to remind customers that the revenue team are back issuing penalty fares and to buy before boarding.

It’s the same leaflet/tactic used when the system was first introduced earlier this year
 

djpontrack

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TPE penalty fares either resumed today or on Monday (Can’t remember which from the top of my head) but these leaflets were being used to remind customers that the revenue team are back issuing penalty fares and to buy before boarding.

It’s the same leaflet/tactic used when the system was first introduced earlier this year

TPE Penalty fates from Monday.
 
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