Long term social distancing: Impact on public life & public transport?

[Islineclear3_1]

But if more people are going to be working from home, they may want/need office furniture, such as a computer "Mickey" desk...

 

[LowLevel]

It looks as if Northern have decided to read the bus guidelines and apply the same to a train!

Unlike a bus I can’t see how they can particularly enforce the seating plan, not an issue at the moment as the services are still pretty quiet but that’ll probably change soon...

As has been mentioned before there is no intent to enforce from the train company. This guidance has been provided, it's up to you to live by it or otherwise.

Passengers will have to behave like adults. If they don't believe their circumstances are safe they are free to remove themselves from them at a station of their choice and wait for an alternative train. Complaints on individual busier trains have been received already and the answer is invariably that the complainant regardless of whether "they were there first" needs to exercise their powers of discretion to remove themselves if they aren't happy.

I will be having nothing to do with passenger's distancing needs and neither will anyone else or the transport police.

The only thing the traincrew are responsible for is their own personal space and they much like the passengers are quite at liberty to refuse to board the train or to leave it if the space isn't available.

The different is it won't move if the passengers refuse to accommodate the crew.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if more people are going to be working from home, they may want/need office furniture, such as a computer "Mickey" desk...

There are a million and one places to order one for delivery. And nobody has only just started working from home, it started 2 months ago!

 

[Cowley]

OK, I definitely don’t think that Ikea has much to do with social distancing on public transport...
Let’s leave that one there (probably queuing) for now please.

 

[johntea]

On the brighter side of things I’ve just noticed to get P16/P17 passengers out of Leeds station without them having to loop round the station they’ve handily opened up the Southern exit door on P17 for passenger exit usage now! (Personally this should have been an option from Day 1 of that opening!)

 

[Bookd]

I see in today's Times that SNCF, having enforced distancing for 3 weeks, has now released all seats as normal.
Given our risk averse government (and population) we might follow their example in about 2023.

 

[xc170]

It looks as if Northern have decided to read the bus guidelines and apply the same to a train!

Unlike a bus I can’t see how they can particularly enforce the seating plan, not an issue at the moment as the services are still pretty quiet but that’ll probably change soon...

That's laughable.

May as well just stop running trains....

 

[Huntergreed]

I see in today's Times that SNCF, having enforced distancing for 3 weeks, has now released all seats as normal.
Given our risk averse government (and population) we might follow their example in about 2023.

2023? You mean 3023? And in Scotland and Wales maybe 4023

In all seriousness though I would imagine that come June 16th they’ll realise that things are getting busy and the distancing they’re asking of us is simply impracticable and unsustainable. Given the infection rate I don’t imagine they’ll release all seats yet, but I’d be very surprised if come August we weren’t running a near enough full timetable with most if not all seating available. As things ease up it will become more obvious that social distancing simply won’t work in this setting, so perhaps moving from that to a strategy of enforced mask wearing and compulsory reservations would suffice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

2023? You mean 3023? And in Scotland and Wales maybe 4023

In all seriousness though I would imagine that come June 16th they’ll realise that things are getting busy and the distancing they’re asking of us is simply impracticable and unsustainable. Given the infection rate I don’t imagine they’ll release all seats yet, but I’d be very surprised if come August we weren’t running a near enough full timetable with most if not all seating available. As things ease up it will become more obvious that social distancing simply won’t work in this setting, so perhaps moving from that to a strategy of enforced mask wearing and compulsory reservations would suffice.

The first sensible step to me would be compulsory reservations and masks (as you say) but only to offer one out of every pair of seats for reservation.

 

[Bantamzen]

The first sensible step to me would be compulsory reservations and masks (as you say) but only to offer one out of every pair of seats for reservation.

Yay!! There is it again, have you tried contacting the RH Shapps on the matter? I'm sure he'll love trying to impose it in a couple of weeks...

 

[Esker-pades]

I see in today's Times that SNCF, having enforced distancing for 3 weeks, has now released all seats as normal.
Given our risk averse government (and population) we might follow their example in about 2023.

But the death and infection rate in France is lower than the UK. They handled the crisis better and they are further along the curve. The UK *seems* to be about 2 weeks behind France at this point. Perhaps we can implement the French policies when our infection and deaths rates are alongside theirs, but we could also decide that it's a bad idea if the French experience is bad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yay!! There is it again, have you tried contacting the RH Shapps on the matter? I'm sure he'll love trying to impose it in a couple of weeks...

Have you got a script set up to flag up every time I refer to it?

 

[xc170]

Have you got a script set up to flag up every time I refer to it?

It is a completely unfeasible concept though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is a completely unfeasible concept though.

So infeasible that LNER are doing it and Avanti West Coast sort of are?

I love the way people on this Forum sometimes relentlessly parrot that something isn't possible when someone is actually doing it.

 

[xc170]

So infeasible that LNER are doing it and Avanti West Coast sort of are?

I love the way people on this Forum sometimes relentlessly parrot that something isn't possible when someone is actually doing it.

Long distance yes it's obviously possible, but to suggest it on commuter services and local bus services, as you have done previously is impossible.

 

[route101]

2023? You mean 3023? And in Scotland and Wales maybe 4023

In all seriousness though I would imagine that come June 16th they’ll realise that things are getting busy and the distancing they’re asking of us is simply impracticable and unsustainable. Given the infection rate I don’t imagine they’ll release all seats yet, but I’d be very surprised if come August we weren’t running a near enough full timetable with most if not all seating available. As things ease up it will become more obvious that social distancing simply won’t work in this setting, so perhaps moving from that to a strategy of enforced mask wearing and compulsory reservations would suffice.

Not convinced it will be a lot busier from June the 15th . Scotland who knows when the services will increase

 

[43066]

I see in today's Times that SNCF, having enforced distancing for 3 weeks, has now released all seats as normal.
Given our risk averse government (and population) we might follow their example in about 2023.

But the death and infection rate in France is lower than the UK. They handled the crisis better and they are further along the curve. The UK *seems* to be about 2 weeks behind France at this point. Perhaps we can implement the French policies when our infection and deaths rates are alongside theirs, but we could also decide that it's a bad idea if the French experience is bad.

I’m afraid I agree with the former poster.

The focus now needs to be on resuming normal life as soon as possible, for all of our benefit (and actual normal life, not a post apocalyptic “new normal”). Whether that means being able to book train tickets to travel in the ordinary way, or simply socialising as usual in the local pub (or equivalent).

The priority now needs to be getting the economy going again.

 

[Esker-pades]

I’m afraid I agree with the former poster.

The focus now needs to be on resuming normal life as soon as possible, for all of our benefit (and actual normal life, not a post apocalyptic “new normal”). Whether that means being able to book train tickets to travel in the ordinary way, or simply socialising as usual in the local pub (or equivalent).

The priority now needs to be getting the economy going again.

I’m afraid I agree with the former poster.

The focus now needs to be on resuming normal life as soon as possible, for all of our benefit (and actual normal life, not a post apocalyptic “new normal”). Whether that means being able to book train tickets to travel in the ordinary way, or simply socialising as usual in the local pub (or equivalent).

The priority now needs to be getting the economy going again.

I haven't actually said anything that contradicts above in what you quoted. Instead, I've pointed out that the argument "but France is doing <X> now means that we should!" is flawed. If your reasoning for releasing restrictions is that other countries are doing it, then that's flawed reasoning. If your reasoning is non-comparative, then that's beside my specific point here.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Not convinced it will be a lot busier from June the 15th . Scotland who knows when the services will increase

My local OpCo has a provisional date for changes (mainly so that furloughed staff are kept in the loop), but nothing set in stone. It'll be when we enter phase 2, anyway.

 

[MikeWM]

Seems surprisingly hard to find a recent figure, but is it fair to say the railways take about £10 billion a year in fare income?

So at 10% capacity, they will effectively be losing £9 billion a year?

 

[Bikeman78]

So infeasible that LNER are doing it and Avanti West Coast sort of are?

I love the way people on this Forum sometimes relentlessly parrot that something isn't possible when someone is actually doing it.

How long do you propose doing it for? How long are people going to be told that public transport is bad? How long will the government keep throwing money at an empty network?

I've done a lot of off peak travel on weekdays. It normally isn't hard to keep away from other people, though there are exceptions of course. In my experience Saturdays are often the worst as there is a steady flow of shoppers and day trippers into the cities.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How long do you propose doing it for?

For as long as social distancing is in place.

How long are people going to be told that public transport is bad?

It could stop immediately - if you can get a reservation, fill your boots.

 

[northernchris]

How long do you propose doing it for? How long are people going to be told that public transport is bad? How long will the government keep throwing money at an empty network?

I've done a lot of off peak travel on weekdays. It normally isn't hard to keep away from other people, though there are exceptions of course. In my experience Saturdays are often the worst as there is a steady flow of shoppers and day trippers into the cities.

There's also the issue that if you dissuade people from using public transport for long enough it could be difficult to entice passengers back.

On Saturdays there's stock sitting around which could be used, as evidenced during Christmas Market season, which could go some way to allow some distancing (although hopefully at 1m!)

 

[Bantamzen]

Have you got a script set up to flag up every time I refer to it?

Of course, its important to nip your idea in the bud in case someone at the commuter TOCs and bus companies have a meltdown and take your idea seriously.....

It is a completely unfeasible concept though.

Exactly.

So infeasible that LNER are doing it and Avanti West Coast sort of are?

I love the way people on this Forum sometimes relentlessly parrot that something isn't possible when someone is actually doing it.

I love the way you parrot that compulsory reservations need to happen on commuter trains because a couple of long distance TOCs have applied them, even though it has been repeatedly pointed out to you why commuter travel is very different to long distance travel. Maybe living where you do commuting is often done on long distance trains, so I can possibly understand your confusion on this, but rest assured that the majority of people in this country don't. So your idea wouldn't work.

 

[nedchester]

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

When university campuses open students might have to live and study in small groups to limit mixing.

www.bbc.co.uk

You really do have to wonder what planet the people that come up with this kind of thing come from?!

 

[kermit]

The debate about the detailed implementation of rail travel arrangements in the coming weeks and months is interesting, but I wonder if there is a bigger picture here to consider.

Personally, unless or until there has been some major advance in treatment or prevention of Covid 19, I will not be choosing to take the option of shared space and potential infection on public transport, if I have the option of travelling in my own personal guaranteed clean and isolated space - my car. I say that as a lifelong advocate for the use of public transport - people less inclined to be biased as I am, will, I think, be much more in favour of using their cars.

The cumulative impact on passenger numbers, possibly for years to come, may be very significant.

 

[underbank]

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

When university campuses open students might have to live and study in small groups to limit mixing.

www.bbc.co.uk

You really do have to wonder what planet the people that come up with this kind of thing come from?!

I think the Unis are getting desperate and resorting to panic measures like bubbles. One of our neighbours works at our nearest uni and they're seeing VERY low firming of offers for the Autumn start, so they're scratting around trying to find ways of attracting students by persuading them they can make it safe without them being locked in their rooms.

 

[Bantamzen]

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

When university campuses open students might have to live and study in small groups to limit mixing.

www.bbc.co.uk

You really do have to wonder what planet the people that come up with this kind of thing come from?!

The kind of people who spend their careers permanently on Skype meetings, talking over PowerPoint presentations and never actually having to apply any thinking to the real world....

 

[yorksrob]

The debate about the detailed implementation of rail travel arrangements in the coming weeks and months is interesting, but I wonder if there is a bigger picture here to consider.

Personally, unless or until there has been some major advance in treatment or prevention of Covid 19, I will not be choosing to take the option of shared space and potential infection on public transport, if I have the option of travelling in my own personal guaranteed clean and isolated space - my car. I say that as a lifelong advocate for the use of public transport - people less inclined to be biased as I am, will, I think, be much more in favour of using their cars.

The cumulative impact on passenger numbers, possibly for years to come, may be very significant.

A lot will depend on that. The advance in treatment or prevention of Covid 19 is the significant bit, but that is more the medium term.

I think the bigger picture is that at some stage in the future, the pandemic will end and it will be more a matter of how much people and companies have taken to things such as working from home etc, rather than percieved medical risk.

 

[AM9]

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

Coronavirus: Students might have to stay in 'protective bubble'

When university campuses open students might have to live and study in small groups to limit mixing.

www.bbc.co.uk

You really do have to wonder what planet the people that come up with this kind of thing come from?!

There was a student ranting on the Today programme this morning that university was a waste of her money because it was all about getting away from home rather than learning. Maybe she'd justified the fees by offsetting some of the cost with the expected savings on drinks in the student union's bar.