Longest time/distance/difficulty expected to walk to make connection?

[unlevel42]

Connections are advertised on the route between Sheffield and North Wales at Warrington on the Northern site.
On another planner a 14 minute walk across a town centre is indicated between Central and Bank Quay.
At what point is walking time/distance/difficulty considered too much?

 

[AlterEgo]

Yeovil Junction - Pen Mill is 50 minutes.

 

[Traveller54]

Glasgow central to Queen street quoted 15 minutes, fine for the able bodied without too much luggage. There is a bus 398 but it does not run at all times the trains are running and infrequent on Sundays and early evening, the timetable advises allowing 30 minutes for the connection.

 

[infobleep]

Yeovil Junction - Pen Mill is 50 minutes.

Are their journeys that come up on the journey planners that including that connection time of 50 minutes?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are their journeys that come up on the journey planners that including that connection time of 50 minutes?

Yep!

See the 2021 from Weymouth...

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/WEY/CKN/060717/1015/dep

 

[ianonteesside]

Suggests a 50 minute cycle ride.Surely theres a bus company out there who would be happy running a service between the two.Ive only ever been to Yeovil Junction,and that only once many years ago.

Hell of a long way if you have much luggage.Bet the local taxi drivers are making a few quid

 

[AlterEgo]

Suggests a 50 minute cycle ride.Surely theres a bus company out there who would be happy running a service between the two.Ive only ever been to Yeovil Junction,and that only once many years ago.

Hell of a long way if you have much luggage.Bet the local taxi drivers are making a few quid

A cycle ride? The itinerary suggests a walk.

There is a bus at most times of the day - check the link for examples.

I don't think Junction - Pen Mill interchanges are that common; I'd be surprised if more than a dozen passengers did it per day.

 

[ianonteesside]

A cycle ride? The itinerary suggests a walk.

There is a bus at most times of the day - check the link for examples.

I don't think Junction - Pen Mill interchanges are that common; I'd be surprised if more than a dozen passengers did it per day.

My mistake i do apologise.Didnt realise it was as little as that many passengers a day

 

[dgl]

Yes the 2021 is annoying, last year there was a connecting train service about ~30mins later but got cut in the most recent timetable good for visiting my gran after work as I usually have Tue/Wed/Thu off and could go after work on the Monday and stay till Thursday but alas no more.



Thinking about it is there anywhere else that has two stations that far apart, on different lines, with no walking route that is not served by a connecting train service.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

 

[edwin_m]

Connections are advertised on the route between Sheffield and North Wales at Warrington on the Northern site.
On another planner a 14 minute walk across a town centre is indicated between Central and Bank Quay.
At what point is walking time/distance/difficulty considered too much?

That sounds pretty silly, because the train you catch at Warrington starts from Piccadilly anyway. Is it some kind of EMT Advance to maximise use of their train, or just a blip in the planner?

I walked across Warrington both ways on a trip from Nottingham to Glasgow a couple of weeks ago, when splitting there seemed to be the cheapest option. They do sometimes offer cheap through tickets that way too. It would be pretty easy to catch the ATW there even stopping to grab sandwich on the way.

 

[route:oxford]

Glasgow central to Queen street quoted 15 minutes, fine for the able bodied without too much luggage. There is a bus 398 but it does not run at all times the trains are running and infrequent on Sundays and early evening, the timetable advises allowing 30 minutes for the connection.

How long should they allow though?

I've made a 5 minute connection between the two stations.

Google suggests 7 minutes from the Union Street entrance.

15 minutes is a real shuffle or amble.

Half an hour is longer than it takes a Scotrail service to leave Queen Street and reach Perthshire.

 

[Ianno87]

Yeovil Junction - Pen Mill is 50 minutes.

Isn't the "official" advice to talk the bus service or a taxi, rather than walk?

Having attempted the walk I would strongly advise against it...

 

[KeithP]

Thinking about it is there anywhere else that has two stations that far apart, on different lines, with no walking route that is not served by a connecting train service.

Watford Junction station to Watford LU Met station is quite a distance.

 

[Bertie the bus]

A cycle ride? The itinerary suggests a walk.

There is a bus at most times of the day - check the link for examples.

You can see how he thought it was a cycle ride though - it has a picture of a cyclist next to it. Quite how a walk has a cycle policy is a bit of a mystery.

 

[Traveller54]

Glasgow central to Queen street quoted 15 minutes, fine for the able bodied without too much luggage. There is a bus 398 but it does not run at all times the trains are running and infrequent on Sundays and early evening, the timetable advises allowing 30 minutes for the connection.

I've made a 5 minute connection between the two stations.

Who are you? Usain Bolt?

 

[route101]

Who are you? Usain Bolt?

 

[takno]

Its possible but you've got to run ! If connecting i give 30mins to get on Edinburgh service to make it stress free and get a seat

Surely if you give it 30 minutes you would just end up on the train before for most of the day.

 

[sk688]

At King's Cross, TFL have it as 13 minutes to make the journey between the Victoria line platforms at King's Cross, and the MML/HS1 platforms there. Surely that's one of the longest walks to make a connection, within a station

 

[route:oxford]

Its possible but you've got to run ! If connecting i give 30mins to get on Edinburgh service to make it stress free and get a seat

It's not so much running, it's favourable pedestrian crossings.

I always go:-

Union Street
Gordon Street
Buchanan Street
Royal Bank Place
Exchange Square
Queen Street

It's the quickest route from London to Stirling.

10:30 to Glasgow Central
15:07 to Stirling

5h06m

 

[yorkie]

Connections are advertised on the route between Sheffield and North Wales at Warrington on the Northern site.
On another planner a 14 minute walk across a town centre is indicated between Central and Bank Quay.

The minimum interchange time between stations is 15 minutes, and that's in addition to 5 minutes interchange time at each station (ie, the time to arrive at station premises, get to the platform and on the train), so in total 25 minutes between trains.

Some booking engines, such as the new version of Trainsplit, allow these minimum times to be extended.

At what point is walking time/distance/difficulty considered too much?

Can you clarify the question please?

 

[richard1976]

That sounds pretty silly, because the train you catch at Warrington starts from Piccadilly anyway. Is it some kind of EMT Advance to maximise use of their train, or just a blip in the planner?

If you split you ticket at Warrington its £10 or so cheaper

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Surely that's one of the longest walks to make a connection, within a station

When Crossrail/ Elizabeth Line opens, some of the interchanges are going to rival this. The Northern Line interchange at Liverpool Street is going to require walking from Liverpool Street to Moorgate, possibly alleviated by being in the right end of the train.

 

[iknowyeah]

Travelling from Crewe to Altrincham via Hartford and Greenbank is some walk

 

[yorkie]

Travelling from Crewe to Altrincham via Hartford and Greenbank is some walk

There is no fixed link for this though, so it's not an official interchange.

 

[unlevel42]

At what point is walking time/distance/difficulty considered too much?Can you clarify the question please?

When travelling from Sheffield to North Wales (usually Bangor) a change or changes of train is required.Possibilities include:
Stockport and Crewe
Stockport and Chester
Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria.
Tamworth and Crewe
Derby and Crewe
Warrington Central and Bank Quay.
Historically Wigan/Crewe and Huddersfield have been options.
An additional change was often needed at Chester and or Llandudno Junction

The level of difficulty for each transfer is different.
Tamworth being by far the best for all aspects of the journey- unfortunately no longer one change so then the fastest now no longer a permitted route.

The most difficult is via Warrington. Unfortunately the booking engines keep bringing up this route.

Given that there are plenty of alternative easier transfers at what point do these booking engines take into account the balance between cross town walk v more changes or longer journey time? Should they include a "long walk" symbol?

 

[DelW]

Edenbridge to Edenbridge Town is about 3/4 mile by road. Journey planners often show routing via London or East Croydon instead, but avoiding London and using the Edenbridge interchange can be quite a bit cheaper even if no quicker. The National Rail planner shows 26min walk between the two.

Near Farnborough, journey planners often show interchange between Ash Vale and North Camp stations, around 11 minutes allowed for just under 1/2 mile.

 

[infobleep]

Suggests a 50 minute cycle ride.Surely theres a bus company out there who would be happy running a service between the two.Ive only ever been to Yeovil Junction,and that only once many years ago.

Hell of a long way if you have much luggage.Bet the local taxi drivers are making a few quid

Is that not to show you can bring a cycle with you. How you transport it to the next station us up to you....

I never knew until now such long connection times involving walking were officially possible as part of an end to end journey. Maybe one day do it for fun. I'd hope its signed posted well.

 

[AlterEgo]

Burscough Bridge - Junction is 16 minutes' walking time, but again, quite a niche interchange. I did it once, just because I could.

 

[yorkie]

When travelling from Sheffield to North Wales (usually Bangor) a change or changes of train is required.Possibilities include:
Stockport and Crewe
Stockport and Chester
Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria.
Tamworth and Crewe
Derby and Crewe
Warrington Central and Bank Quay.
Historically Wigan/Crewe and Huddersfield have been options.
An additional change was often needed at Chester and or Llandudno Junction

The level of difficulty for each transfer is different.
Tamworth being by far the best for all aspects of the journey- unfortunately no longer one change so then the fastest now no longer a permitted route.

OK I can understand the point you are making now.

I don't quite follow the Tamworth example though; this is out of the way for Sheffield to Bangor. But it could be an option for other journeys.

The most difficult is via Warrington. Unfortunately the booking engines keep bringing up this route.

Do you have examples of when this is the case? I did some random searches using fastjp.com and couldn't find any examples of this.

Given that there are plenty of alternative easier transfers at what point do these booking engines take into account the balance between cross town walk v more changes or longer journey time?

I only know of one website that has a box you can untick to avoid such walks, and that is TrainSplit v2 (Trainscanbecheaper is effectively the same site but without splitting), but if anyone knows of any others, feel free to reply below!

I don't think booking engines take into account 'difficulty' of transfer; they generally look at the fastest route, which is obtained by timetable and fixed link data. Some booking engines will offer slower itineraries that include fewer interchanges.

I found a better example (but if anyone can identify other good examples, please do feel free to contribute):

Urmston to Runcorn East.

I searched for Tuesday 12 September after 1200, but the same principle applies at other times.

The following itineraries are possible:

Urmston 1222
Manchester Oxford Road 1234

(cross platform connection)

Manchester Oxford Road 1239
Manchester Piccadilly 1241

(cross platform connection)

Manchester Piccadilly 1252
Runcorn East 1333
​

OR

Urmston 1224
Warrington Central 1245

(walk for 0.7 miles)

Warrington Bank Quay 1326
Runcorn East 1333
​

I believe many people would prefer the cross-platform interchange option via Manchester. It's clearly permitted via Manchester as the shortest route by rail is via Manchester Group (and doubling back between Deansgate and Piccadilly is absolutely permitted by the Group Stations rule), although Atos WebTIS powered sites won't offer any itineraries via Manchester, even when 'via Manchester' is specified.

Traingenuis also won't offer an itinerary via Manchester (I'll get this reported to the creators as I know they use this forum)

National Rail Enquiries will - correctly - give an itinerary via Manchester, but only if you explicitly specify via Manchester.

The GTR websites (powered by On Track Retail) will also correctly offer itineraries via Manchester, but again only if you specify via Manchester.

Trainsplit v2 will offer itineraries via Manchester if you go to Advanced options and untick "Walk". This doesn't require geographical knowledge of the railway to use. Edit: I'm not sure why I didn't spot this before, but in "Popular" mode it actually finds these itineraries automatically!

Perhaps an 'avoid walks' option should be easier to spot? I'll feed it back by posting in the Trainsplit v2 thread.

Should they include a "long walk" symbol?

Very possibly there should be some sort of warning...

However it is subjective; where do you draw the line?

I know I've said this before, but the distance between Wigan Stations (Wallgate <> North Western) is arguably shorter than the distance between some platforms within Manchester Piccadilly (which does not count as a "walk"!)

 

[DarloRich]

OK I can understand the point you are making now. I don't quite understand your point about Tamworth though; this is out of the way for Sheffield to Bangor.

In an ideal world that might actually be best! XC to Tamworth <> Virgin to Bangor. (Today it is more likely a change onto the LM fast to Crewe then a change onto a Virgin to Bangor)