Looking down on people paying to travel 1st class: Why?

[PR1Berske]

I can see why this discussion must be baffling to people outside the UK, where our inbuilt, inherent obsession with class and privilege hardly resonates at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see why this discussion must be baffling to people outside the UK, where our inbuilt, inherent obsession with class and privilege hardly resonates at all.

Now try India, where it's like it was in Britain 100 years ago in that respect.

 

[trainophile]

I wonder if the critics of people having an option of paying more for a more comfortable journey wholeheartedly disapprove of private health care too. (For the record I don’t have that, before the slings and arrows come out!)

This is going nowhere, and trying to have a reasoned debate with people who admit they have no idea what paragraphs are is getting pretty tedious.

Now sitting back to enjoy my ride to Bridlington on good old Standard Class only Northern!

 

[SteveM70]

On GWR`s new style sham of what is rumoured to pass as 1st class I simply don`t bother as it isn`t worth it anymore since the HST has gone.

Hmmmm

I wondered why first class was virtually the same price as standard when I booked Penzance to Paignton for tomorrow morning. I was hoping for some breakfast on the train - is this not provided any more?

 

[Meerkat]

My employer only permits standard class (unless first happens to be cheaper) and there have been times when I've stopped work if there's a risk somebody sat next to me may be reading my screen.

Get a screen filter so it can only be seen from directly in front.
Just remember it is on there before you start trying to point out stuff on your screen to anyone else.....

 

[ABB125]

I have no issue with people paying for first class if they want to. The phrase "it's a free country" is possibly applicable to this topic.
I've only ever travelled in first class once, about two months ago, as it was cheaper than standard. The journey was Carmarthen to Bristol Parkway on one of the direct GWR trains. (My trip was on a Sunday.) I got some free food and drink, and the entire table to myself.
Advance first class tickets for CMN-BPW on GWR's direct trains (2 per day I think) are normally available from £10 (less with a Railcard), and I think both during the week and at the weekend. Very good value. I would recommend it for anyone making that journey. (Incidentally, I booked my ticket about a day and a half before I travelled, so the tickets can be available at short notice.)

 

[ExRes]

this is possibly the most embittered childish thread I’ve seen in some time.

If people choose to pay for 1st class be it for the free gin, the extra space, relative calm or they quite like the colour of the curtains as the sun rises over Doncaster then that’s there choice. And those who don’t pay vice versa.

it’s the new vogue of the social media era. Everyone must fit into a box, everyone must have an opinion on said box and anyone disagreeing with that opinion of my box I shall criticise.

Absolutely, totally, 100%

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hmmmm

I wondered why first class was virtually the same price as standard when I booked Penzance to Paignton for tomorrow morning. I was hoping for some breakfast on the train - is this not provided any more?

GWR has never done free "proper" food in 1st, you have to pay for it in the restaurant car (where provided).

 

[Scousemouse]

A standard class table seat provides a perfectly adequate workspace. Anyone claiming they need to be in first in order to get some work done is just trying it on.

A 15 inch laptop cant open on a XC voyager or a pendoline airline seat sufficiently to be able to see the screen and type at the same time. Possibly if you very very very short arms.

 

[DarloRich]

I have thought very hard about posting in this thread as my views aren't popular. I have no issues with first class. I do have an issue with many posters here getting cheap first class and then whining about standards not being good enough. I get grumpy because next year my season ticket will cost me £6K plus. For that I, often, don't even get a seat and find it galling when people who, on the face of it, contribute substantially less than me into the system complain about not getting an extra rasher of bacon or moan about a second class pleb daring to use their first class toilet.

So what would I do about it? I would cut first class provision ( and get rid of it entirely on commuter trains) and transfer the majority of the space on intercity trains into standard class accommodation. I would increase the price and make it a true premium product aimed at business people and offer a true business class service. I would remove cheap advance tickets and remove railcard discounts in first class. At the same time I would improve the standards in cattle class and I would offer free rewards to people paying the most. Got a £6k season ticket sir? Would you like a free cup of tea? If you are on a cheap ticket you get nowt.

What many here miss is that for most of us in the real world first class is a treat not a right. Perhaps show some self awareness and think about that next time you complain about something you get for free.

PS don't tell me you HAVE to travel first class to do any work on a train. That is utter balderdash. I travel all round the country for work, and I always manage to work on my lap top in second class. What would make it easier is free wifi, more plugs and access to some kind of decent waiting room at the station.

 

[AM9]

... This is going nowhere, and trying to have a reasoned debate with people who admit they have no idea what paragraphs are is getting pretty tedious. ...

Please explain for the benefit of everybody here just what you mean by that obtuse comment.

 

[trainophile]

Please explain for the benefit of everybody here just what you mean by that obtuse comment.

I am on my phone on a train so can’t C&P.

Your final comment on post #118 implied that I was asking you to leave a space between each sentence. That is not what I meant by paragraphs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have thought very hard about posting in this thread as my views aren't popular. I have no issues with first class. I do have an issue with many posters here getting cheap first class and then whining about standards not being good enough. I get grumpy because next year my season ticket will cost me £6K plus. For that I, often, don't even get a seat and find it galling when people who, on the face of it, contribute substantially less than me into the system complain about not getting an extra rasher of bacon or moan about a second class pleb daring to use their first class toilet.

If that's to/from London to/from Fenny/Bletchley (though I didn't think it had got that expensive), you need to consider your choice of trains. I have a near 100% record of a seat for that journey - usually a seat of my choice (forward facing window side extra legroom), too.

Fundamentally, though, when a ticket is sold both parties enter into a contract, and it isn't acceptable if that contract is not fully fulfilled, even if the consideration is only minor. So it's quite right to complain about things not being provided. Two wrongs fundamentally don't make a right.

 

[DarloRich]

If that's to/from London to/from Fenny/Bletchley, you need to consider your choice of trains. I have a near 100% record of a seat for that journey.

Depends on the timing. Since they took away the 0713 and let wrong uns form Northampton or MK on board..........................

(The evening is worse tbh especially if i want to be home at a decent time)

PS but yeah, lets over look the point on price and reward

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends on the timing. Since they took away the 0713 and let wrong uns form Northampton or MK on board..........................

That train is less civilised now I'd imagine (not used it in that form yet) but I'm betting as a 12-car it's not exactly full and standing by Bletchley, particularly given that it's very much the slow option from points north.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have thought very hard about posting in this thread as my views aren't popular. I have no issues with first class. I do have an issue with many posters here getting cheap first class and then whining about standards not being good enough. I get grumpy because next year my season ticket will cost me £6K plus. For that I, often, don't even get a seat and find it galling when people who, on the face of it, contribute substantially less than me into the system complain about not getting an extra rasher of bacon or moan about a second class pleb daring to use their first class toilet.

So what would I do about it? I would cut first class provision ( and get rid of it entirely on commuter trains) and transfer the majority of the space on intercity trains into standard class accommodation. I would increase the price and make it a true premium product aimed at business people and offer a true business class service. I would remove cheap advance tickets and remove railcard discounts in first class. At the same time I would improve the standards in cattle class and I would offer free rewards to people paying the most. Got a £6k season ticket sir? Would you like a free cup of tea? If you are on a cheap ticket you get nowt.

What many here miss is that for most of us in the real world first class is a treat not a right. Perhaps show some self awareness and think about that next time you complain about something you get for free.

PS don't tell me you HAVE to travel first class to do any work on a train. That is utter balderdash. I travel all round the country for work, and I always manage to work on my lap top in second class. What would make it easier is free wifi, more plugs and access to some kind of decent waiting room at the station.

WiFi doesn’t help. I always find it better to tether from my phone.

But i agree with your point about rail cards and APs. I don’t know when the 16-25 railcard was able to be used in first. Many years ago but certainly not when I had one. But i suspect filling up 1st wasn’t the intention of it.

I don’t mind the APs personally. I have seen first % seats occupied greater than standard on LNER. Never seen more that 4 people in 1st on GN.

I don’t understand seat frog. But I have seen posts from people that “only ever travel first”. Shame we can’t afford to but us season ticket holders never get sympathy. We pay a lot but people highlight we cost per journey is cheap so they are subsidising us.

 

[DarloRich]

We pay a lot but people highlight we cost per journey is cheap so they are subsidising us.

they must be buying a lot of £12 advance 1st's to subsidise my £6k season ticket!

I don't want much: All I want is posters here to recoginse they are in a privileged and lucky position that isnt reality and wont last for ever. Oh and a free brew once in while!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Got a £6k season ticket sir? Would you like a free cup of tea? If you are on a cheap ticket you get nowt

Annual season tickets are already heavily discounted and, in your neck of the woods, you get a free railcard thrown in for nowt.

I would get rid of 1st class on LNR, but it wouldn't make a great deal of difference really- there's always a decent 1st class loading to Herts and Bucks- and would cost LNR revenue. That loss would get passed on to you.

 

[DarloRich]

I would get rid of 1st class on LNR, but it wouldn't make a great deal of difference really- there's always a decent 1st class loading to Herts and Bucks- and would cost LNR revenue. That loss would get passed on to you.

I am already paying £6k+. I suppose I could sell half of my liver. ( BTE You also assume all of those people in first have a first class ticket ) Any sign of my free brew yet?

Annual season tickets are already heavily discounted and, in your neck of the woods, you get a free railcard thrown in for nowt.

Great! First class discount! Can I use it on Virgin or LNER? Oh, hang on...................

 

[Failed Unit]

I am already paying £6k+. I suppose I could sell half of my liver. ( BTE You also assume all of those people in first have a first class ticket ) Any sign of my free brew yet?

Complain. Even the UK’s worse TOC GTR give us free brews. While we are telling them how poor they are at the meet the manager sessions.

 

[AM9]

I am on my phone on a train so can’t C&P.

Your final comment on post #118 implied that I was asking you to leave a space between each sentence. That is not what I meant by paragraphs.

I was taught to use paragraphs to divide text into topics or sub-topics for easy of comprehension, which is what I always do and have here. I don't see what your comment means in respect of this thread.

 

[DarloRich]

Complain. Even the UK’s worse TOC GTR give us free brews. While we are telling them how poor they are at the meet the manager sessions.

I would have love to have met our managers. The train failed and they all went home. ( and i was a way when the Euston one took place)

 

[Bletchleyite]

But i agree with your point about rail cards and APs. I don’t know when the 16-25 railcard was able to be used in first. Many years ago but certainly not when I had one. But i suspect filling up 1st wasn’t the intention of it.

If I recall correctly it was when, or very near to when, AP First Class tickets started existing (as Virgin Value First). You can't use a 16-25 on First Anytime tickets and *possibly* not on First Off Peak (not sure on the latter). This was somewhere around late 1999/early 2000.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have love to have met our managers. The train failed and they all went home. ( and i was a way when the Euston one took place)

I had some good conversations with the LM managers, particularly the excellent David Whitley (he of the Twitter) - but they were a rather better-run TOC.

By the way, on the way home, go for the 1816 and change to the Southern at Leighton (it's basically a guaranteed connection because of the delay sending the Southern out in front would cause - they'll hold it at Ledburn to let you in front). As long as you board it 10 minutes or so before it goes and walk all the way to the front you'll get a seat. About 50 people do that connection daily. The 1750-whatever it is is also a reasonable bet for a seat - basically just hunt down the 12-cars and stick with those. Not because they're not busy - they are and often 1st gets declassified - but because many people can't be bothered walking 220m before boarding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Complain. Even the UK’s worse TOC GTR give us free brews. While we are telling them how poor they are at the meet the manager sessions.

I don't think they deserve that moniker any more now the strikes are sorted. FWIW, the Southern service is now the most punctual/reliable TOC at Bletchley...

 

[DarloRich]

By the way, on the way home, go for the 1816 and change to the Southern at Leighton (it's basically a guaranteed connection because of the delay sending the Southern out in front would cause - they'll hold it at Ledburn to let you in front). As long as you board it 10 minutes or so before it goes and walk all the way to the front you'll get a seat. About 50 people do that connection daily.

I want to be home by then I do go for that one when I am in the office later. My main worry is the connection onto the Vale at present!

 

[Failed Unit]

I want to be home by then I do go for that one when I am in the office later. My main worry is the connection onto the Vale at present!

They could make your tea from the excess heat from the radiators of your 230.

 

[al78]

I get grumpy because next year my season ticket will cost me £6K plus. For that I, often, don't even get a seat and find it galling when people who, on the face of it, contribute substantially less than me into the system complain about not getting an extra rasher of bacon or moan about a second class pleb daring to use their first class toilet.

Who's choice is is to have a job and a home so far apart that they need to spend £6000pa on a season ticket?

Perhaps you shouldn't complain about situations that you have put yourself in with your own lifestyle choices.

Whether the standards in 1st class are up to scratch has nothing to do with how much anyone has paid for their 1st class ticket, either they are good enough or they are not. Neo-liberal capitalism is not a suitable logical argument for everything.

 

[trainophile]

I was taught to use paragraphs to divide text into topics or sub-topics for easy of comprehension, which is what I always do and have here. I don't see what your comment means in respect of this thread.

My last word on the matter - long screeds of text are easier to read if not presented in a big solid block.

Darlo, by my calculations, and assuming you go to work 45-46 weeks of the year allowing for holidays and bank holidays, your £6K works out at about £27 a day, or £13.50 each way. Doesn’t sound too bad when you put it like that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ouch... Bletchley to R1256 is £5,656.00 - that's gone up a tad! £4,648.00 if you can use Shanks's pony in London though...

Bletchley to London is not an outrageous commute, and a mortgage on a typical small house there plus the season ticket is way cheaper than a mortgage on a similar house in London, which is why those 12-car peak services are not carrying fresh air.

That said it is a lifestyle choice, just like travelling First Class.