Looking for historic bus info-Cheshire East

[Martin2012]

Hi

Can anyone suggest anywhere that I might be able to find information about buses that were operating in the Cheshire East area in the late 80s/early 90s.

From about late 1988 until early 1991 I lived in this area. Originally we lived in a place called Coppenhall and then moved to somewhere called Haslington.

I have memories of regularly traveling on the bus betweem Haslington and Crewe and I seem to remember them being red and silver double deckers but I've always been interested to find out what routes the buses in that area took back then, what sort of frequency there was and who operated the services?

Is there anybody who would know where I might be able to find some information about these services?

 

[itsonlyme]

Two or three years ago I was trying to find out about bus services in Crewe prior to de-regulation. I asked in Crewe library if they had any old timetables covering the early 80's or 70's, was told they don't keep things like that as they can see no useful purpose in doing so.

What a lot of use they are, just like the rest of the local councils then ---- and now.

If you find any information perhaps you could post a link here.

Thanks

Malcolm

 

[Statto]

The main companies then in Crewe was be PMT, & Crosville, Crosville was sold around 89-90, not sure whether Crewe along with Macclesfield was a management buyout before being brought by Stevensons later Midland Red, now Arriva.

Unfortunately Google search doesn't bring up anything.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The main companies then in Crewe was be PMT, & Crosville, Crosville was sold around 89-90, not sure whether Crewe along with Macclesfield was a management buyout before being brought by Stevensons later Midland Red, now Arriva.

Unfortunately Google search doesn't bring up anything.

Ok, here goes....

PMT was a management buy out from the NBC. They had traditionally operated into Crewe and they had close links with Crosville, even sharing their Biddulph depot with Crosville. At dereg, they sought to expand their operations and increased their presence in Crewe as well as operations in West Yorkshire, Wirral and West Midlands.

They traditionally operated the 320 which was Hanley to Crewe and operated it with silver (plus red, yellow and black), coach seated Olympians from 1989 onwards.

Crosville traditionally had the depot in Crewe next to the bus station. This was closed after de-reg and mothballed though later reopened c.1988. They were privatised by sale to ATL Holdings who also owned SUT, Yelloway etc. They made a dogs breakfast of things, had a strike in Liverpool and closed that depot and then elected to break up Crosville and sell off into component parts. They also pocketed most of the property with large sites at Heswall, Northwich and Warrington all being vacated.

Hence, the Wirral ops were sold to PMT (Rock Ferry, Ellesmere Port and Chester depots) in c.1988 who had already set up an operation in the Wirral. The rest was sold to Drawlane, predecessor of British Bus and the basis of much of Arriva. Of that, Winsford and Runcorn etc went to North Western, the Crewe and Oswestry depots were transferred to Midland Red North whilst Congleton and Macclesfield became C-Line. The latter two were later moved to Midland Red North/Stevensons as things got very blurred.

The Crosville livery was dark green and cream, whilst MRN had white with red and yellow trim, later adopting a very dull red and gold and then back to the previous colours albeit with more yellow.

North Western and Midland Red North/Stevensons were both British Bus and so became Arriva subsidiaries when Cowie Group bought BB in 1997.

 

[pemma]

Somewhere on Flickr someone's posted a copy of the Cheshire bus routes at the time of deregulation. I've not got time to look for it now.

 

[6Gman]

Two or three years ago I was trying to find out about bus services in Crewe prior to de-regulation. I asked in Crewe library if they had any old timetables covering the early 80's or 70's, was told they don't keep things like that as they can see no useful purpose in doing so.

What a lot of use they are, just like the rest of the local councils then ---- and now.

If you find any information perhaps you could post a link here.

Thanks

Malcolm

The Crosville Enthusiasts Club holds a full set of timetables back to long, long ago at its Archives in Birkenhead. Try their website for details.

To be fair to Crewe Library ... you do realise how many yards of shelf space it would take to store all those timetables? And how rarely anybody would want to consult them ...

 

[Martin2012]

Many thanks to those who have taken the time to respond and provide me with information.

The 320 Hanley to Crewe route must have been the one I used to ride on when I was younger. I definatley have memories of riding those olympians

Did the modern day version of the route back in October all the way from Hanley to Crewe and then back. Obviously nowadays its just First liveried vehicles. I think I had an ex Worcester enviro 300 for my journey.

 

[daodao]

Hi

Can anyone suggest anywhere that I might be able to find information about buses that were operating in the Cheshire East area in the late 80s/early 90s.

From about late 1988 until early 1991 I lived in this area. Originally we lived in a place called Coppenhall and then moved to somewhere called Haslington.

I have memories of regularly traveling on the bus betweem Haslington and Crewe and I seem to remember them being red and silver double deckers but I've always been interested to find out what routes the buses in that area took back then, what sort of frequency there was and who operated the services?

Is there anybody who would know where I might be able to find some information about these services?

The bus services via Haslington pre-1986 included:

North Western Road Car Company 24 (Crewe-Macclesfield), which subsequently became Crosville K38 when NWRCC was broken up in 1972, and is now Arriva route 38.

Potteries Motor Traction (now absorbed by First) 20 (Crewe-Hanley), which retained that number for many years (since at least 1953) until recently, when it was renumbered 3.

Joint Crosville/NWRCC services from Northwich to Crewe via Sandbach, predecessors of Arriva route 37.

 

[6Gman]

The bus services via Haslington pre-1986 included:

North Western Road Car Company 24 (Crewe-Macclesfield), which subsequently became Crosville K38 when NWRCC was broken up in 1972, and is now Arriva route 38.

Potteries Motor Traction (now absorbed by First) 20 (Crewe-Hanley), which retained that number for many years (since at least 1953) until recently, when it was renumbered 3.

Joint Crosville/NWRCC services from Northwich to Crewe via Sandbach, predecessors of Arriva route 37.

The 20 became the 320 for a period of time (not sure when, late 70s/early
80s?) before reverting to the 20.

 

[Statto]

I remember when the C84 was Chester-Hanley via Crewe, until Midland Red split it at Crewe, then it became C84 Chester-Crewe & C85 Nantwich-Hanley, some C84s operated Nantwich-Crewe to make the frequency every 20 minutes on the C84-C85 Nantwich-Crewe section

The 20 became the 320 for a period of time (not sure when, late 70s/early
80s?) before reverting to the 20.

It became the 320 again after D-Reg, only became the 3 the last few years, i do remember the 320 going Coppenhall-Hanley, before being diverted to operate Leighton Hospital-Hanley.

 

[Martin2012]

Interesting to hear that the 320 route went from Coppenhall to Hanley. I have vague memories of that service but its possible I'm thinking of the Haslington to Crewe service.

Think we moved from Coppenhall to Haslington in either late 1989 or early 1990. Going by earlier posts in this thread it sounds like the route had become Hanley to Crewe by 1989.

 

[PaulWC]

Been reading this thread and as I used to live in Crewe (Wistaston Green to be precise) I thought I'd add to the conversation.

The Crewe to Hanley was the number 20 up to the early or mid 80s. It was then became the 320 - I think all of PMT's Cheshire services were numbered in the 300's at this point.

At deregulation in 86, PMT won the contract for the K12 Crewe to Coppenhall. They ran this with a blue and yellow Bristol LH using the name Coppenhall Clipper. Presumably the service was doing so well they decided to run it commercially, but ran it as an extension of the 320 Coppenhall - Crewe - Hanley. Might have been 1989 ish, not sure on that.

Early 90s was when they introduced the silver, red and yellow double deckers. I've got a timetable from 1994 where it was still running to Coppenhall, so it was later than that before it was extended further still past Coppenhall and onto Leighton Hospital. Then it was renumbered back to 20, and now of course it's the number 3.

The section from Crewe to Hanley has always run by the same route through Haslington though, so regardless of where it started from, you would've seen it in Haslington.

PMT did also run a K34 from Crewe to Haslington for a while (1987 onwards?) which Midland Red North later took over.

 

[Statto]

37 & 38 also ran & still run via Haslington, 37 Crewe-Winsford, 38 Crewe-Macclesfield both 37 & 38 operate the same route Sandbach-Crewe

 

[PaulWC]

There was another bus that ran through Haslington in the 90s and 2000's, the D1 which was a minibus service run as The Harrier between Crewe and Sandbach (think it was run by Dingle Taxis, but I might be wrong there). By about 2010 it was run by Bakers for a while til they went under.

 

[martinsh]

There was another bus that ran through Haslington in the 90s and 2000's, the D1 which was a minibus service run as The Harrier between Crewe and Sandbach (think it was run by Dingle Taxis, but I might be wrong there). By about 2010 it was run by Bakers for a while til they went under.

The Harrier started out as a 8 seat taxi which is where the Dingle Taxis name came from. It then graduated to 16 seat minibuses - often lightly larger ones downseated. After Bakers stopped running, D & G did take over the service for a while (as the no 36), but ran it rather haphazardly, and eventually gave it up

 

[PaulWC]

The Harrier started out as a 8 seat taxi which is where the Dingle Taxis name came from. It then graduated to 16 seat minibuses - often lightly larger ones downseated. After Bakers stopped running, D & G did take over the service for a while (as the no 36), but ran it rather haphazardly, and eventually gave it up

Didn't realise it was actually ran with a taxi. I remember the minibus they used.

PMT ran a K36 for a few years after deregulation from Crewe to Sandbach, but that was used for school journeys to and from the Sandbach schools or for positional journeys for their other Sandbach services.

 

[itsonlyme]

Harrier had an odd fare collection process. For a single journey the fare was just collected, and no ticket isssued. For a return you paid and received a metal token which you handed to the driver at the start of your return journey.
What happened if you needed some form of receipt I do not know.

 

[Laurencew]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bus-Timet...525983?hash=item2cbf2666df:g:BrYAAOSwi7RZFjj9

Does this help?

Interesting that with all the recent 'bus wars' on this route, 26 years ago the service was only hourly and no evening service.

 

[PaulWC]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bus-Timet...525983?hash=item2cbf2666df:g:BrYAAOSwi7RZFjj9

Does this help?

Interesting that with all the recent 'bus wars' on this route, 26 years ago the service was only hourly and no evening service.

That's a timetable for the other Hanley bus via Madeley and Newcastle, not the one via Haslington. This was the old Crosville bus now split into the 84 and 85.

I wonder if another operator was running evening and Sunday services back then, and that's why they're not shown. There were certainly later buses than that to and from Chester before and after the date of that timetable.

The bit from Crewe to Chester only really ran half hourly for a relatively short period of time - Arriva were running it by then. Under Crosville and MRN it was always hourly.

 

[Martin2012]

Once again many thanks to those who have responded to this thread. It must have been 1990 when I rode those silver, red and yellow deckers on the 320 route as we moved out of the area (to Yate) at the start of February 1991

 

[the101]

One of those silver Olympians is preserved currently in that livery. The local First subsidiary also painted one of its B7TL Wright Geminis into the same scheme last year as a heritage-type thing.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

the British Library receives copies of all books produced in the United Kingdom and Ireland - does that extend to the book format bus timetables ?

 

[Deafdoggie]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-v41iKlBFJBU/Vgg3Mb_7CeI/AAAAAAABZV0/YFpJ8eHT30Q/s1600/S2010068.JPG

Not the best image, but that is one of them. If memory serve me right, they had 3 deckers (757-759) and 2 single deckers painted.

 

[Deafdoggie]

And here is the original (and now preserved) example, with the modern repaint. The modern repaint is purely for sentimental value, it can't operate the route now, as it won't fit under Kidsgrove bridge (but the original still will!)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8222/29659446522_ebe6af7207_b.jpg

 

[Deafdoggie]

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/32379471323_89a8ae59eb_b.jpg
My memory clearly fails me, here is 760 in 320 livery! It is worth noting that the route was always 320 when this livery was carried, and had been for many years before. PMT used the 3XX numbers for Cheshire services.

 

[Deafdoggie]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2630/3884489733_802dcf0a9c_b.jpg And here is one of the single deckers. (albeit on route 24) You can see the Crewe-Alsager-Hanley branding on the side

 

[martinsh]

If memory serve me right, they had 3 deckers (757-759) and 2 single deckers painted.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2932/32379471323_89a8ae59eb_b.jpg
My memory clearly fails me, here is 760 in 320 livery! It is worth noting that the route was always 320 when this livery was carried, and had been for many years before. PMT used the 3XX numbers for Cheshire services.

There were actually 10 vehicles in the batch 753-62 (G/XRE), but some were in normal livery. I think 755-61 were the ones in the 320 livery.

 

[Deafdoggie]

753-762 were the batch, I think 753 & 754 had bus seats (and possibly 755), and the rest were high-backed seats. 756-760 in silver livery. 761 and 762 initially allocated to Cheadle, the rest to Burslem. All ended up at Newcastle. The Silver Livery was adapted for the X39 Alton Towers bus.

So, in answer to original question, 756-760 would have passed through Haslington, and visited Coppenhall when route extended there.

They also went to Leighton Hospital when route went there. The extension was what required the two single deckers to join the silver fleet.

When it became the 3 route, it initially carried on to Keele via Stoke, Station, Hospital, and Newcastle. But this was fairly quickly curtailed back to just Hanley again. Now the Leighton section has gone, so we are back to Crewe-Hanley again. However, every 20 minutes between Alsager and Hanley.

There was a brief spell when the 320 (possibly when it became the 20) ran onwards from Hanley to Meir via Longton. This was when the deckers (and silver livery) went off the route. Although the extension was short lived, the deckers and livery never came back.

The deckers needed to be "low-height" to get under Kidsgrove rail bridge, as First have no "low-height" deckers now, the route has to be single deckers.

There was a brief moment when the 20 (possible when it first became the 3) did not go via Haslington, operating along B5077 all the way to Crewe Green Church, although no time removed from timetable, it was slightly quicker to improve reliability. But it meant no one could get to/from Haslington! It was therefore fairly quickly restored after passenger protests.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Just for my own peace of mind-here is 755 at Newcastle depot, with bus seats! The high-backed seats clearly started at 756-the first Silver Decker. Obviously, this is a more recent photo (2013) so all have been repainted.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95376697@N08/9488516702/