Lost ticket, but still have booking email

[Drsatan]

Hi everyone,

A friend is supposed to be traveling from Exeter St Davids to Paddington with an AP ticket this evening. However, he's lost the ticket, but still has the booking email confirming payment for the journey, seat reservation and the train he's booked on.

Will it be possible for him to go to the ticket office at Exeter St Davids and request a replacement ticket upon production of the email?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The only tickets that can be replaced/duplicated are monthly or longer season tickets and Railcards. Your friend will need to buy a new ticket or find the AP ticket.

 

[Drsatan]

The only tickets that can be replaced/duplicated are monthly or longer season tickets and Railcards. Your friend will need to buy a new ticket or find the AP ticket.

Ok, could he get on the train and show the email to the guard when he comes round to check tickets, just to show he's paid for the journey?

 

[wibble]

Ok, could he get on the train and show the email to the guard when he comes round to check tickets, just to show he's paid for the journey?

No - your friend must be in possession of his Advance ticket. The confirmation e-mail is not valid for travel and he'll need to buy a new ticket.

If your friend buys another ticket for his journey and later finds his Advance ticket, he cannot claim any refund on the additional ticket purchased.

 

[Drsatan]

No - your friend must be in possession of his Advance ticket. The confirmation e-mail is not valid for travel and he'll need to buy a new ticket.

If your friend buys another ticket for his journey and later finds his Advance ticket, he cannot claim any refund on the additional ticket purchased.

That seems harsh given the email will contain the booking reference and confirmation of payment.

 

[theblackwatch]

What's to say someone else will not attempt to use the ticket though?

 

[Mike395]

It might seem harsh I agree, but I'm of the view that it would otherwise be open to abuse - I've occasionally not sat in my allocated seat on an Advance ticket and the guard hasn't given it a second thought - if there was a friend of mine with the email confirmation in my allocated seat, he would most likely not remember the details of my ticket and say his 'ticket' was valid too, if confirmations were accepted.

 

[Ferret]

It might seem harsh I agree, but I'm of the view that it would otherwise be open to abuse - I've occasionally not sat in my allocated seat on an Advance ticket and the guard hasn't given it a second thought - if there was a friend of mine with the email confirmation in my allocated seat, he would most likely not remember the details of my ticket and say his 'ticket' was valid too, if confirmations were accepted.

The conditions of carriage do state what happens in the case of a lost ticket - buy a new one. Alas, this looks like one to put down to experience

 

[Greenback]

I agree. In this case it is reasonable to treat the tickets as you would cash.

 

[Drsatan]

Update: my friend has found his AP ticket.

 

[Ferret]

Update: my friend has found his AP ticket.

Oh good!

 

[Greenback]

That's good news, probelm solved!

 

[shinkansen1966]

No - your friend must be in possession of his Advance ticket. The confirmation e-mail is not valid for travel and he'll need to buy a new ticket.

If your friend buys another ticket for his journey and later finds his Advance ticket, he cannot claim any refund on the additional ticket purchased.

Glad the ticket has been found.

Last July, I travelled from Exeter St D to London Paddington on a advance purchase ticket. It was only AFTER I got on the train, that I realised that I'd lost my ticket. The confirming email, on my iPhone, and credit card used to buy the ticket was enough for the guard.

It's a compelling case to allow people to travel on advance tickets with just an email and credit card. Saves the hassle and (now enroaching postal expense) of paper tickets.

Airlines and National Express coaches have paperless tickets. Sure the railways here can adopt the same system for advanced purchase fares, too.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, paperless tickets would be a good step forward for many people, but what would happen if you lose your phone? There must be a way to try and ensure that people do not travel when they ar enot entitled to. If a ticket is lost, it can be picked up and used by someone else. If someone loses their phone, it could be picked up and used. Whatever the medium on which the ticket is stored, be it paper, or phone screen, it must be present to prevent misuse. I don't think that is unreasonable

 

[shinkansen1966]

Yes, which ever way you look at, it is the responsible passengers to travel with correct documentation. Even with a paperless travel system, you should have either the confirming SMS/Email on your phone and credit card. Or the equivalent stuff printed out prior to travel.

If you loose your phone, well I guess that's your bad luck.

 

[bb21]

I would think that the megatrain model is one that can be put on trial runs. AP bookings close the previous evening so there is no reason why the guard cannot have a printout of all bookings on that train detailing items such as the last four digits of the card number used for the booking, passenger surname, booking reference, seat number, etc, as appropriate, and cross them off as each AP ticket is checked to avoid duplication. Alterations to tickets can close, say, 15 mins before departure from originating station so the printout can be done in time. Megatrain/bus, National Express, Greyhound, etc, all use this approach to some extent so why not the TOCs?

 

[shinkansen1966]

so why not the TOCs?

Probably because they can't be bothered. To make this kind of system work, you'd need guards to carry equipment to check against emails/SMS, credit cards and passenger names. This happens in other countries but not here. Because it requires investment and won't necessarily additional raise revenue.

Better to give guards equipment to collect fares and issue penalty tickets. Oh, and make sure they give out those annoying announcements reminding passengers of transportation to a penal colony, if they caught with an advance ticket for the wrong train.

With those ticket contraptions and constant reminderers of rail fares laws, guards are now more like traffic wardens.

 

[wibble]

I would think that the megatrain model is one that can be put on trial runs. AP bookings close the previous evening so there is no reason why the guard cannot have a printout of all bookings on that train detailing items such as the last four digits of the card number used for the booking, passenger surname, booking reference, seat number, etc, as appropriate, and cross them off as each AP ticket is checked to avoid duplication. Alterations to tickets can close, say, 15 mins before departure from originating station so the printout can be done in time. Megatrain/bus, National Express, Greyhound, etc, all use this approach to some extent so why not the TOCs?

Coaches and trains are very different.

- The coach only has one passenger door and the drivers sees everyone that get's on and off. Trains may have up to 24 doors on a 12 car and the guard won't remember who's ticket's been checked from one end of the train to the other.
- They can't sell more tickets than there are seats available on the coach.

Print at home and mobile phone tickets are available but they're essentially a ticket. At present, if lose your print out or your mobile and you'll be in a similar situation as losing a paper ticket!

If Avantix Mobile had a live link to CTR database, it could check print at home/mobile phone tickets and 'stamp' them electronically to show they'd been checked on train. It would also act as a back-up if someone lost or mislaid their ticket.... But that might be some time off yet!

 

[Mvann]

Going slightly away from transport, at a recent concert I went to, your email was the ticket and each ticket had a barcode on it. This was then scanned as you went in. Surely that would be fairly easy to setup, as a portable scanner should be fairly to attach to a guards ticket machine?

 

[Flamingo]

Better to give guards equipment to collect fares and issue penalty tickets. Oh, and make sure they give out those annoying announcements reminding passengers of transportation to a penal colony, if they caught with an advance ticket for the wrong train

Of course, those annoying announcements are to ensure that those who abuse the terms of their contract are doing so knowingly, and aware of the consequences. So when they get caught, the whine of "nobody told me" is a bit easier to counter. Myself and most of my colleagues would prefer to clip a valid ticket and get back to the cab for tea and crossword.

If you'd prefer for us not to leave the cab in the first place, then it would suit me, why don't you write to ATOC and make a case for no ticket-checking on any trains?

 

[sheff1]

Of course, those annoying announcements are to ensure that those who abuse the terms of their contract are doing so knowingly, and aware of the consequences. So when they get caught, the whine of "nobody told me" is a bit easier to counter.

The thing is that these announcements are annoying (or worse) to the vast majority of passengers who are not abusing their contracts.

I do not need to be told when I board a train (never mind after every stop) that travelling without a valid ticket is a criminal offence, anymore than I need to greeted when entering a shop with announcements telling me that that shoplifting is a criminal offence. The implication is that you are considered a suspect as soon as you board a train. I have never heard this type of announcement in any other country.

 

[Darandio]

The thing is that these announcements are annoying (or worse) to the vast majority of passengers who are not abusing their contracts.

I do not need to be told when I board a train (never mind after every stop) that travelling without a valid ticket is a criminal offence, anymore than I need to greeted when entering a shop with announcements telling me that that shoplifting is a criminal offence. The implication is that you are considered a suspect as soon as you board a train. I have never heard this type of announcement in any other country.

PC gone mad? You really feel like a "suspect" when an announcement is made to inform people of the rules or restrictions regarding tickets?

Why not just sit there, happy in your own state of clear conscience that you are absolutely fine and let the staff get on with their duties?

 

[sheff1]

You really feel like a "suspect" when an announcement is made to inform people of the rules or restrictions regarding tickets?

No. Informing people of restrictions is fine. I am referring to the continual emphasis put on 'criminal offence'.

Why not just sit there, happy in your own state of clear conscience that you are absolutely fine and let the staff get on with their duties?

I do not see why banging on about 'criminal offences' to persons with valid tickets is part of staff duties.

 

[MikeWh]

How do you feel when you enter a shop with a large prominent notice about local civil recovery schemes on the door, or one saying shoplifters will be prosecuted behind the counter?

 

[sheff1]

How do you feel when you enter a shop with a large prominent notice about local civil recovery schemes on the door, or one saying shoplifters will be prosecuted behind the counter?

No problem at all. I would have a problem if the assistant ran through the schemes before they served me.

 

[Lad Brookes]

No problem at all. I would have a problem if the assistant ran through the schemes before they served me.

That's a shocking analogy. The equivalent would be if the guard ran through the penalties individually to each passenger as he came to their seat, just before checking their ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

That's a shocking analogy. The equivalent would be if the guard ran through the penalties individually to each passenger as he came to their seat, just before checking their ticket.

Would you feel uncomfortable in a shop if the tannoy *kept* announcing that shoplifting was illegal along with various other offences? It's fair enough on a sign as you enter.
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Going slightly away from transport, at a recent concert I went to, your email was the ticket and each ticket had a barcode on it. This was then scanned as you went in. Surely that would be fairly easy to setup, as a portable scanner should be fairly to attach to a guards ticket machine?

Like on East Coast?

Unfortunately it currently can't be used if you connect with any other company.

If only we had some sort of organisation or association to help TOCs work these things out between them and set some common standards.

 

[A60K]

If only we had some sort of organisation or association to help TOCs work these things out between them and set some common standards.

I can't see that such an association would have any teeth. It might try to simplify tickets for example, but then one or more of its members would do something to cause more confusion. I suppose though that if such an association existed it would ensure that the electronic catalogue of its members' prices would be available for instant download free of charge. And at least it would always suggest to people cheap ways of enjoying a day out on the railway, and not (example plucked out of the air) suggest they buy CDs instead.

Most importantly however, what would you call such an association anyway? The Commonwealth of Independent Train Operating Companies perhaps?

 

[4SRKT]

Surely a better system than either paperless tickets or having to have the orginal ticket would be print your own ticket as you do with Ryanair boarding passes. That way you get a ticket, can reprint it if it gets lost, and the railway saves on the cost of postage and small pieces of cardboard. You could still opt to have it posted or collect from a ticket machine, and then be subject to the same rules as now.

 

[scrapy]

I do not need to be told when I board a train (never mind after every stop) that travelling without a valid ticket is a criminal offence, anymore than I need to greeted when entering a shop with announcements telling me that that shoplifting is a criminal offence. The implication is that you are considered a suspect as soon as you board a train. I have never heard this type of announcement in any other country.

Do you really think guards make these announcements for fun? If there wasn't a problem with passengers travelling without tickets then I'm sure they wouldn't make them. To me it is common sense, but I'd rather these announcements were made and fare evaders/those who breach their contract pay their way. I certainally have never felt like a suspect.