Lostock- Wigan electrification

[GRALISTAIR]

As this is a separate electrification scheme - although part of the whole Northwest Programme, it really should have its own thread.

See here for initial comment which seems to be confirmed gen from a good source.

Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

 

[lancastrian]

Great News, the only thing that could improve it from my point of view would be platforms on the Wigan Line at Lostock Junction.
Sadly pipe dream time.

 

[Ianno87]

Great News, the only thing that could improve it from my point of view would be platforms on the Wigan Line at Lostock Junction.
Sadly pipe dream time.

Even though Lostock is the closest station to where I grew up, I'm not sure what problem providing Wigan line platforms is actually there to solve.

The vast majority of demand is to/from Bolton and Manchester, for which the current frequency (2tph off peak, 3tph peak) is probably about right, and demand is quite weighted towards the peak (steady, but quiet-ish off-peak).

Increase it to say 4tph all day (with a mix of Wigan/Preston services) and you risk suddenly making the station a "railhead" for which its smallish car park and residential road access are not really suited - it would just suck passengers from Horwich/Westhoughton (with less frequent services) and Bolton (frequent trains but not great for parking at)

Although a direct link to Wigan is a useful local link (and the train jouney time would be very attractive compared to car), I just don't think the demand is really there for it - and Westhoughton isn't that far away anyway.

Only way it might make sense is for calls in Wigan trains to replace one call per hour on the Preston route, offering a slight pathing and journey time benefit, and taking some Lostock passengers off busy Preston services and onto quieter Wigan services.

Although physically fitting Wigan line platforms in would be interesting - the line immediately starts a steepish climb towards Westhoughton, and the junction protecting signal is right where you'd want to stick the platforms...

 

[lancastrian]

Fair point, Lostock Junction is the closest station to where I live, the next is Bolton. I have used both Lostock and Horwich Parkway when travelling north, especially because of the car parking. There were platforms on the Wigan line until the station closed 1965 (I think), so there must have been some demand. But as I said 'sadly pipe dream time'.

By the thank you to yourself and LDECRexile for the excellent updates for the North West Electrification threads.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There are already overlap masts at the Lostock end but not at the Wigan end. Presumably there will be an isolation point or even a neutral section apart from the TSS at Lostock

 

[twpsaesneg]

There are already overlap masts at the Lostock end but not at the Wigan end. Presumably there will be an isolation point or even a neutral section apart from the TSS at Lostock

Neutral at the Wigan end, insulated overlaps at Lostock.

I hope that the sources are correct, as I'm still getting nothing definitive.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Ill wait with the cake and balloons until we get something formal. But the noises I heard is that the government were looking favourably on it at and were still very keen to see GRIP3. Apparently there could be loads of work on that line to do to the bridges anyway, so actually a lot of the civils costs would have to be spent anyway...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Its only a short stretch so that seems crazy to me. Oh well

 

[LM93]

15 Bridges between Lostock & Wigan, including Rumworth Road at Lostock.

 

[InOban]

It is possible that some of these bridges are life-expired, and/or need rebuilding to accommodate a wider carriageway and pavements. In which case there may be other budgets to be raided...

 

[furnessvale]

It is possible that some of these bridges are life-expired, and/or need rebuilding to accommodate a wider carriageway and pavements. In which case there may be other budgets to be raided...

Indeed. At least two minor bridges on the Buxton line have been rebuilt using standard concrete arch units meaning that any subsequent electrification (some hopes) would have two bridges less to contend with.

 

[snowball]

It is possible that some of these bridges are life-expired, and/or need rebuilding to accommodate a wider carriageway and pavements. In which case there may be other budgets to be raided...

That's helpful if the local authority has the right money at the right time.

When a major new road is built, minor roads get widened and realigned where they cross it, but when a railway is electrified and bridges over it are rebuilt, they often seem to remain as narrow as before.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It is possible that some of these bridges are life-expired, and/or need rebuilding to accommodate a wider carriageway and pavements. In which case there may be other budgets to be raided...

Yes. Sorry my original post was very poorly written.

If electrification doesn't go ahead there is a significant number of bridge rebuilds and big refurbishments required anyway so actually a lot of the cost would need to be spent regardless of electrification. That could help the project from a funding perspective.

And the fact that the government needs some good news stories for the North especially around Bolton and this Could be one. Don't know what those on that line would think about yet more possessions mind.

 

[twpsaesneg]

15 Bridges between Lostock & Wigan, including Rumworth Road at Lostock.

Rumworth has already been lifted as part of Phase 4 works, many of the other bridges are in poor condition already.

Its only a short stretch so that seems crazy to me. Oh well

It is a short stretch but will provide a secondary route from Wigan Springs Branch to the Manchester area when the sidings there are wired, plus potentially a diversion route between Lostock Junction and the WCML in the event of any problems in the Chorley area.

There's been a lot of work done on this scheme to date so I hope it comes off.

 

[WatcherZero]

Of course the big bridge in need of major attention is Wallgate itself with the crack and temporary shoring.

 

[snowball]

Of course the big bridge in need of major attention is Wallgate itself with the crack and temporary shoring.

However the main element of the proposed electrification carefully avoids this by running to North Western. According to the Enhancements Update, IIRC, the feasibility of Wallgate as an add-on is being investigated. So if the bridge needs major work it will be Somebody Else's Problem.

 

[td97]

Don't think the scope includes Wallgate - only to North Western, with services terminating in the bay platform

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Of course the big bridge in need of major attention is Wallgate itself with the crack and temporary shoring.

I don’t think that would need doing immediately. I think it is only been done to Wigan Station Jct. I think Wallgate only gets done if Salford to Southport gets sparked up.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah im just saying its the big bridge needing refurbing, you can only give it a derogation from renewal for so long when its already on life support.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Correct that is my understanding too. So hopefully any southporth manchester via bolton service would be given a 769 if it is done.

 

[snowball]

It's as I said in #16. Page 144, left column: "Feasibility study to support extension of electrification limits to include the route to Wigan Wallgate".

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EDP-March-2018.pdf

So no doubt if the bridge requires major work they'll make sure it comes from another budget by omitting wires to Wallgate for now.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Correct that is my understanding too. So hopefully any southporth manchester via bolton service would be given a 769 if it is done.

A lot on diesel power if they route via Atherton though.

 

[CdBrux]

If this does get the go ahead then it will be critical that it is delivered on time and to budget as it is sure to be seen as a test case that NR can actually manage competently such a project. I hope the cost estimations etc... have been done taking into account experience on the Preston to Manchester scheme.
I wonder if there is potential from some prolonged blockades on parts of the route to help reduce costs and avoid keeping the neighbours awake at night

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If this does get the go ahead then it will be critical that it is delivered on time and to budget as it is sure to be seen as a test case that NR can actually manage competently such a project. I hope the cost estimations etc... have been done taking into account experience on the Preston to Manchester scheme.
I wonder if there is potential from some prolonged blockades on parts of the route to help reduce costs and avoid keeping the neighbours awake at night

You named that tune in one.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Unlike other schemes, this one has received (relatively) a lot of design development ( and ground investigation) time, there are no major items of switchgear (My memory is that the Lostock end is the NS and it will be fed from the WCML to avoid loading Ordsall / Heyrod). The bridges at Ince will be tricky (headroom) and Wallgate is verging on impossible but otherwise its one of the more straightforward schemes, plus phase 4 wired 5% of it and fixed the legacy signalling issues at Westhoughton for them!

There are also very few (2) footpath crossings, no tunnels and when originally remitted, no journey time improvement requirement either. Lostock Junction and Crow Nest Junction have both been resignalled recently and North Western is already wired, so the immunisation works will be minimal too.

Simples!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it's an add-on which can be delivered on time and on budget it will improve confidence in NR's planning and delivery capability for bigger schemes.
It's hard to know who would be the person to give it the OK.
I guess it's a problem for the new NR chief (Andrew Haines) and Chris Grayling within the CP6 plans.
I doubt if Northern is in any position to lobby for it, even though they would be the beneficiary.
Maybe TfN will be the sponsor, aiming to reinstate a wider electrification programme for the north.
Before then, it's the 769s we have to look forward to.
Perversely, the more successful the 769s are, it decreases the likelihood of an early resumption of electrification.

 

[geoffk]

If this does get the go ahead then it will be critical that it is delivered on time and to budget as it is sure to be seen as a test case that NR can actually manage competently such a project. I hope the cost estimations etc... have been done taking into account experience on the Preston to Manchester scheme.
I wonder if there is potential from some prolonged blockades on parts of the route to help reduce costs and avoid keeping the neighbours awake at night

Good news then. Wigan terminators are already running to North Western. Now how about Victoria - Stalybridge, what's the latest on that?

 

[WatcherZero]

If it's an add-on which can be delivered on time and on budget it will improve confidence in NR's planning and delivery capability for bigger schemes.
It's hard to know who would be the person to give it the OK.
I guess it's a problem for the new NR chief (Andrew Haines) and Chris Grayling within the CP6 plans.
I doubt if Northern is in any position to lobby for it, even though they would be the beneficiary.
Maybe TfN will be the sponsor, aiming to reinstate a wider electrification programme for the north.
Before then, it's the 769s we have to look forward to.
Perversely, the more successful the 769s are, it decreases the likelihood of an early resumption of electrification.

Correct me if im wrong but the Dft already allocated full funding for it (£37m in 2013) and never removed that funding commitment when the electrification schemes were paused. So the project doesn't need a sponsor just the Dft to honour its promise.

 

[Elecman]

Its a shame that i5 wil” be too late for the Volker team to keep go8ng having just about finished a Blackpool whilst they are still mobilised

 

[snowball]

Correct me if im wrong but the Dft already allocated full funding for it (£37m in 2013) and never removed that funding commitment when the electrification schemes were paused. So the project doesn't need a sponsor just the Dft to honour its promise.

I don't know enough about how government spending on railways works to know whether that's the case. There was a DfT press release in Dec 2013 that gave the impression that it was definite:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/road-and-rail-projects-to-boost-local-and-regional-transport--2

but it seems odd that they would commit firmly to a scheme that had not been through much of the GRIP process. Four months earlier there had been another press release about Windermere which was more tentative in its wording:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-route-for-lake-district

and from then until Grayling cancelled Windermere last year, the Enhancements Delivery Plan Updates tended to treat Windermere and Lostock-Wigan as if they were in the same category as each other, but less definite than Phases 1-5.