Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

scosutsut

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1 Jan 2019
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228
What, if anything, will be directly replacing the 04/55 B7RLEs still in use?
The B8RLE seems the most obvious choice given Lothian's openly happy with Volvo products.

Bar the debatable finishing on the Wrattlebus bodywork the 17 plates at ECB seem to be doing a sterling job bar not being big enough for the peak loads on the X7 (hardly the fault of the bus though)

Will the rumoured Enviro 300 relaunch materialise on the chassis? Will the MCV demonstrator have triggered some orders? Will Lothian surprise us all and order more Milk Floats? More 7900s? Will bendies of some description get another go with a view to cure the capacity issues on the 30?

We can only add 2 and 2 together and get 74,673 (as I like to continually demonstrate with nearly every post!)

Personally I'd love to see the Enviro 300 rumour come true, with the XLB style front end though, not the MMC front not a fan of that.

Time will tell though.
 
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Lothian_Bus

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29 Jan 2018
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1112 on a run on the 44 heading to Wallyford this evening. Haven't been aware of the XLB's on the East Bound section of the 44 route before (X44 East yes). Normally just the west bound section at the weekend if an XLB has been used on the N44.
 
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1112 on a run on the 44 heading to Wallyford this evening. Haven't been aware of the XLB's on the East Bound section of the 44 route before (X44 East yes). Normally just the west bound section at the weekend if an XLB has been used on the N44.
That’s surprising. I would’ve thought they’d struggle with Macbeth Moir Road at the east end of the route.
 

Snow1964

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7 Oct 2019
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Kingston upon Thames
The B8RLE seems the most obvious choice given Lothian's openly happy with Volvo products.

Personally I'd love to see the Enviro 300 rumour come true, with the XLB style front end though, not the MMC front not a fan of that.

Time will tell though.
I guess if Lothian can operate E400XLB then can probably request ADL to adapt the New Zealand spec E200XLB and make a UK spec version

The problem with Volvo chassis B8RLE is how much longer they will make them, as Volvo seem to be moving to electric urban buses rather than diesel in Europe. Unlikely to develop the diesel design further so will eventually become old design.
 

scosutsut

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1 Jan 2019
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Think you mean city front as MMC & XLB fronts are exactly the same
I don't think even Alexander Dennis can decide what they are called.

For me the MMC front is the unbalanced one with the black strip under the nearside front screen (as found on all new 200s as per the ones Borders just took) which by their website is also available on deckers (it used to refer to these as City but doesn't anymore.)

The XLBs don't have that front. They have the older, balanced look also available on regular 400s.

It's that look I'd hope any 300s, should they emerge, would be graced with.
 

scosutsut

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1 Jan 2019
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The problem with Volvo chassis B8RLE is how much longer they will make them, as Volvo seem to be moving to electric urban buses rather than diesel in Europe. Unlikely to develop the diesel design further so will eventually become old design.
I'd hazard a guess that having gone to the trouble of developing a product, they will let it run out until it's not selling anymore or it no longer meets standards.

If operators were only buying electrics and hybrids then perhaps but Euro 6 pure diesel vehicles are, and will continue to sell for sometime until the costs, reliability and availability of the 'greener' options becomes more mainstream and accepted by operators.
 
Joined
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I don't think even Alexander Dennis can decide what they are called.

For me the MMC front is the unbalanced one with the black strip under the nearside front screen (as found on all new 200s as per the ones Borders just took) which by their website is also available on deckers (it used to refer to these as City but doesn't anymore.)

The XLBs don't have that front. They have the older, balanced look also available on regular 400s.

It's that look I'd hope any 300s, should they emerge, would be graced with.
MMC: Seen on First Glasgows recent route branded orders, Ex-First West Lothian 27/28 then 23 branded models, Go-Ahead London Double deckers, Stagecoach Double deckers

XLB: Basically a larger MMC

City: CT Plus London vehicles, new First Glasgow airport deckers, the singles all have this front however it is branded MMC
 

OmniCity999

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30 Jan 2018
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I don't think even Alexander Dennis can decide what they are called.

For me the MMC front is the unbalanced one with the black strip under the nearside front screen (as found on all new 200s as per the ones Borders just took) which by their website is also available on deckers (it used to refer to these as City but doesn't anymore.)

The XLBs don't have that front. They have the older, balanced look also available on regular 400s.

It's that look I'd hope any 300s, should they emerge, would be graced with.
New deliveries will have the MMC front as per the XLB's.

Basically due to maintenance spares and familiarisation.
 

Chris225

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18 Jan 2016
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22
Think I'll just stick to the train in the future

was just asked by driver to leave bus as I was the only person left on and he was running 40 minutes late and wanted to take bus out of service. only reason I took the Ex2 was to avoid the walk to linlithgow station but I've now had to do that anyway walking the length of Edinburgh city centre kinda defeats the point.
 

scosutsut

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1 Jan 2019
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228
MMC: Seen on First Glasgows recent route branded orders, Ex-First West Lothian 27/28 then 23 branded models, Go-Ahead London Double deckers, Stagecoach Double deckers

XLB: Basically a larger MMC

City: CT Plus London vehicles, new First Glasgow airport deckers, the singles all have this front however it is branded MMC
Thanks. All very confusing, and that's before you try and figure out what MMC might stand for

New deliveries will have the MMC front as per the XLB's.

Basically due to maintenance spares and familiarisation.
Makes sense and was essentially what I was hoping would happen albeit with mixed terminology!
 

CN04NRJ

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28 Nov 2019
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UK
I mean the Streetlite literally exists... We have dome 07/57/08 plate E200s here and they ain't too bad, little rattles for a bus of their age and they still go well.
I've managed to avoid Streetlites! The E200s I drive are awful especially the Voith ones. MMCs are a huge improvement, though I'll be saying goodbye to them in a few weeks when I move to Edinburgh.
 

Jordan Adam

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I see all the StreetAIRs are off the road, some of them haven't seen service for months. I can't say i'm really surprised as i said from day one that the vehicles were a stupid pointless purchase, which in my view only bought so Hall & Co could go to the newspaper saying "ohh look at our fancy new electric buses".
 

Darklord8899

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6 Jul 2018
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I see all the StreetAIRs are off the road, some of them haven't seen service for months. I can't say i'm really surprised as i said from day one that the vehicles were a stupid pointless purchase, which in my view only bought so Hall & Co could go to the newspaper saying "ohh look at our fancy new electric buses".
Aye, not really the capacity needed for Edinburgh.....the 61 is about the only route they are any good for
 

ANWP Tom

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31 May 2018
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With the Christmas day timetable now available.
https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2019/12/lothian-announces-services-for-festive-period/

A few observations:
1, Midlothian getting nothing (Council not funding?) nothing beyond the bypass out that way. would have expected maybe a token hourly 29/31/37 to run considering the catchment area of those routes.
2, half hourly 22 linking 2 shopping centres?
3, Through working of 34/44 Lochend-Balerno and 30/37 Silverknowes-Niddrie

Thoughts?
 
Joined
27 Nov 2018
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825
With the Christmas day timetable now available.
https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2019/12/lothian-announces-services-for-festive-period/

A few observations:
1, Midlothian getting nothing (Council not funding?) nothing beyond the bypass out that way. would have expected maybe a token hourly 29/31/37 to run considering the catchment area of those routes.
2, half hourly 22 linking 2 shopping centres?
3, Through working of 34/44 Lochend-Balerno and 30/37 Silverknowes-Niddrie

Thoughts?
definately reckon missing midlothian is a bad idea. should have the 3 following its night route, 31 and extend to Rosewell and the 37 as usual
 

A330Alex

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13 Feb 2019
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With the Christmas day timetable now available.
https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2019/12/lothian-announces-services-for-festive-period/

A few observations:
1, Midlothian getting nothing (Council not funding?) nothing beyond the bypass out that way. would have expected maybe a token hourly 29/31/37 to run considering the catchment area of those routes.
2, half hourly 22 linking 2 shopping centres?
3, Through working of 34/44 Lochend-Balerno and 30/37 Silverknowes-Niddrie

Thoughts?
Seems pretty much identical to last years bar the new LCB services (https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/LB-XMAS-LEAFLET-2018-revA_WEB.pdf). Midlothian services would no doubt need subsidies like East/West so I imagine the council aren't willing to pay.
 
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With the Christmas day timetable now available.
https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2019/12/lothian-announces-services-for-festive-period/

A few observations:
1, Midlothian getting nothing (Council not funding?) nothing beyond the bypass out that way. would have expected maybe a token hourly 29/31/37 to run considering the catchment area of those routes.
2, half hourly 22 linking 2 shopping centres?
3, Through working of 34/44 Lochend-Balerno and 30/37 Silverknowes-Niddrie

Thoughts?
definately reckon missing midlothian is a bad idea. should have the 3 following its night route, 31 and extend to Rosewell and the 37 as usual
It seems fairly clear to me. East Lothian and Edinburgh City Councils are both subsidising services on the 25th - so they are getting a service. Midlothian Council decided not to - so receive no service.
 
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It seems fairly clear to me. East Lothian and Edinburgh City Councils are both subsidising services on the 25th - so they are getting a service. Midlothian Council decided not to - so receive no service.
Edinburgh don't subsidise anything at Christmas nowadays. I think LRT opted to run most of the tenders on a commercial basis back in the 1990s when Arriva were poised to take the contracts, presumably with a view to obtaining a foothold in the Edinburgh bus market. Can't be sure of the details but it was something like that. Obviously once a council removes a subsidy budget it becomes difficult to replace so Lothian would be obliged to maintain the services. However these seem to have grown over the years (certainly over the past 10 years) rather than being cut back.

Also the 22 covers alot of housing estates.
Yes, there's much more to the 22 route than just taking passengers from one closed shopping centre to another! However since 2014 it has been shadowed by the 16 down Leith Walk (this year also running half hourly). They must feel there's adequate demand here, with low car ownership housing development starting to take off. And of course the tram will be coming this way in a year or two.
 

ANWP Tom

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Point on the 22 is that the full route isn't really needed. Saughton turn round at the Western End and make it the 16 section forward from Leith Walk. Save the buses off the 16 for somewhere else. Would think that there is enough Midlothian catchment to make it pay even if it was alternate hours 31 and 37 and use one of the buses you save to extend the 3 out a little further than it is.

Use the 22 for work and do think it is over frequency for the footfall really. One less an hour maybe 2 would still provide well enough most of the time. Remember the old peak X26-22 through buses in a morning as well.

Am I right in thinking the 44 used to do full route on Christmas day?
 
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Point on the 22 is that the full route isn't really needed. Saughton turn round at the Western End and make it the 16 section forward from Leith Walk. Save the buses off the 16 for somewhere else. Would think that there is enough Midlothian catchment to make it pay even if it was alternate hours 31 and 37 and use one of the buses you save to extend the 3 out a little further than it is.

Use the 22 for work and do think it is over frequency for the footfall really. One less an hour maybe 2 would still provide well enough most of the time. Remember the old peak X26-22 through buses in a morning as well.

Am I right in thinking the 44 used to do full route on Christmas day?
Really can't see it. The Midlothian routes tend to add a whole hour there and back from where they terminate just now (coincidentally with Edinburgh's boundary). In that time the vehicles could run into the city centre and back out again.

Is this really a massive inconvenience, or is it just that people in Midlothian feel left out? As we repeatedly read on these forums, virtually nowhere else in the UK has public transport on Christmas Day.
 

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